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To draw or not to draw?

I would like to know how everyone goes about drawing up their plans these days? By hand or by CAD?Having come to garden design from an art background I have always prided myself on doing everything by hand. I really enjoy the process of drawing by hand - it feels very immediate and as though you're physically connected with what you're doing. It's also completely unique because no two drawing styles are the same.However, I recently downloaded a free program called Sketchup from Google which allows you to make 3-d models of your gardens quite quickly and easily. I still haven't completely mastered it, but it's fairly easy to use, and you can even do a walk-through of the garden in your model (I haven't got this advanced yet...).I'm considering forking out to go on a CAD course to learn Vectorworks or something similar. I know that making changes to plans will be so much quicker and easier on the computer (scratching out and re-drawing on tracing paper can be a real pain) and labelling and elevations will be much more straightforward too.I think a combination of the two is what might work best - what's everyone else's experience?

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  • PRO
    There is also another thread going on the subject of CAD versus hand drawn that you might wish to take a look at here - https://landscapejuice.ning.com/xn/detail/2074886:Comment:18024
  • Hi Clive

    That's really useful, thank you for ranting! So basically you think I should buy the software but not bother with the course? In my experience most programs like this come with very good tutorials and Help options of their own, is this the case with Vectorworks? I suppose I could just buy a book and slog through it.

    I think you might be right, CAD will make my plans a lot more accurate, and save time. What's really getting on my nerves about drawing is that I love using Rotring pens, but they always get so blocked up! It takes me about 1/2 hour just to get the pens going.

    The only trouble is that it's quite expensive to buy. Do you, or anyone else have any suggestions as to where to get a good deal?

    I've just remembered going to a talk by Tom Stuart Smith where he said that he often has someone do a CAD elevation drawing for him, and then he traces over the top of it to make it look like he's drawn it himself! Cunning....


    Clive Warwick said:
    I to have a fine arts background having spent five years drawing at art college. I love drawing, and now I will rant on about CAD!.

    As a professional landscape designer I think all garden designers should use AutoCAD. Its a great tool.
    My reason for saying this is that we should get away from this (traditional) thinking that garden designers have, in that, all their energy should go into creating a beautifully drawing plan for their clients!

    The client is employing a garden designer to design a garden not produce a lovely picture of their dream garden. My view is that the design you produce is a working technical document, with all the information contained there in, on how to build the garden.

    Ok you can sketch up ideas (i tend to do this on paper and sometimes show those very early ideas to my client so we can get the visual reference right) but I think CAD is more acurrate and more professional (architects use CAD!!!) for producing such drawings.

    The main complaints I hear about CAD is that the drawings look awful! (And this is usually from some designer who turns out lovely drawings, rather unecessarily I think) I dont understand this! CAD is a communication and vsiual tool and you have to work at it. Its only as good as the person using it.

    Also if you have go down this odd route of pencil/pens on paper/tracing (lark) then its a lot of work to keep adjusting the drawing. I gave all that up because I found the volume of work I had at the time was eased with CAD, you can adjust things very quickly. Pens and all melarky isnt so easy in that repect.


    I myself am always experimenting with CAD - at the moment I tend to use the grey scale and line thickness to produce my drawings. Its quite tricky but the effect I think works. Colour CAD drawings dont seem to have the same visual qualities.

    I would recommend you jump in the deep end and use Vectaworks, as most architects are using this and its better to have the full programe if you can afford it as the quality of drawing with be better. You can get Vectaworks with a landscaping package. I use Keyplanting on old AutoCAD2000, I am behind the times but hope to upgrade to Vectaworks.

    At the beginning I largly taught myself to use AutoCAD and found the training was sooon forgotten, instead I tended to learn about CAD with on the job experience. Fork out for the software not the course.

    Sorry to rant on!
  • Thanks Philip, I've had a look and realised there is a long and in-depth discussion already in progress on this subject! I'll trawl through it for some advice.

    I think the consensus seems to be that CAD is a pretty useful tool.

    Philip Voice said:
    There is also another thread going on the subject of CAD versus hand drawn that you might wish to take a look at here - https://landscapejuice.ning.com/xn/detail/2074886:Comment:18024
  • I love doing my plans and isometrics by hand, it pure therapy for me! i spend enough time in fron of the computer as it is already, AND I think its a much better selling tool for clients.
  • I use Sketchup to plan the garden and check dimensions, areas for quantities etc. It's a great and intuitive drawing tool and best of all it's free! I tend to do plan views by hand still though - but usually after I've done all my working out with Sketchup. I simply don't have time to hand draw, make amendments, re-draw etc. I find I make my living better by being on-site.

    I also have a fine art background and would love to be able to spend time hand-rendering everything but my clients seem to like the 3D presentation on my laptop.
  • Hi Charlotte

    I also went to art school. I want to learn how to use cad. however I have, found that by scanning hand drawn designs into photoshop can help with the speed of changes ect. Also by dropping a few images of compleated gardens around the outside of the plan, can give the client a good picture of what you are thinking of. Its a bit A level but it is quick and effective.

    Ta

    Jon
  • A mix of both works best for me. On the occasions where I do my own site surveys, then drawing up the plans is much quicker and more accurate on computer, and I can make extra copies really quickly if I need to. I also use the computer for planting plans. It just saves time rather than drawing all those circles and labels with a pen and ink.

    For presentation plans and perspective drawings it's all hand drawn for me. Yes it's a pain when you make a mistake which if you were using a computer could be corrected in seconds, but I always prefer (and so do my clients, however limited they have been so far) the personal touch that comes from pens, pencils and pastels.

    The fact that I can't really draw to save my life doesn't enter into it. :)
  • Hi Charlotte,
    I agree with Bird. If you want to try the CAD route to either replace or compliment your hand drawings, you could do no better than download Sketchup. As it's free, you can determine whether to go the CAD route or not without laying out a lot of money. Furthermore, it's extremely easy to learn compared with other CAD packages. You'll amaze yourself with how much you can achieve in an evening as a newbie. There are loads of tutorials available, a brilliant forum and a warehouse full of downloadable components. I should add that if you only want to produce plans as opposed to 3D drawings then an upgrade to the pro version might be worth considering as it includes an integrated module called Layout but it's quite easy to produce plans in the free version. You can even import scans of your sketches, trace over them and adjust them to size. Everything is drawn at full scale but printing can be scaled down. I'm not suggesting it's the best ever CAD program and those who are already comfortable with another product are unlikely to migrate (especially if they've paid a lot for it).
    For what it's worth.
    Roger
  • Hi we also use AutoCAD for designs, its really accurate and enables you to provide a dimensioned plan for setting out and taking off materials. Amendments are really easy and it is possible to send clients a pdf version of the drawing so they can see recent amendments without constantly printing off the results. As you all know pdf viewers are free even if the client doesn't have one loaded. Out-putting from CAD dwg to pdf is also available free.

    We feel however that the finished result is a bit sterile so when the brief is frozen we take off a black and white print on quailty paper and colour wash the plan to give the client a 'picture ' of the final design. Many of these have been framed and hung in our clients houses, they seem to go down well.

    For those wanting to get into AutoCAD, sadly it is now very expensive. AutoCAD 2009 is a very sophisticated piece of software which really isn't needed for garden design, you will only use 20% of its functions. Try to buy an older copy, back as far as release 98, they are more simple to use for novices and still compatible as far as printing is concerned with the new versions. I mention this because we e-mail the .dwg drawing to a local printer who prints off the required copies and sends them back to us in the post. This saves on another unnecessary expense of an A1 plotter.

    I can't think of anything nicer than sitting in the warmth of the office designing a new scheme on CAD with, as it is today the snow flurries passing by the window !


    Clive Warwick said:
    I to have a fine arts background having spent five years drawing at art college. I love drawing, and now I will rant on about CAD!.
    As a professional landscape designer I think all garden designers should use AutoCAD. Its a great tool.My reason for saying this is that we should get away from this (traditional) thinking that garden designers have, in that, all their energy should go into creating a beautifully drawing plan for their clients!

    The client is employing a garden designer to design a garden not produce a lovely picture of their dream garden. My view is that the design you produce is a working technical document, with all the information contained there in, on how to build the garden.

    Ok you can sketch up ideas (i tend to do this on paper and sometimes show those very early ideas to my client so we can get the visual reference right) but I think CAD is more acurrate and more professional (architects use CAD!!!) for producing such drawings.

    The main complaints I hear about CAD is that the drawings look awful! (And this is usually from some designer who turns out lovely drawings, rather unecessarily I think) I dont understand this! CAD is a communication and vsiual tool and you have to work at it. Its only as good as the person using it.

    Also if you have go down this odd route of pencil/pens on paper/tracing (lark) then its a lot of work to keep adjusting the drawing. I gave all that up because I found the volume of work I had at the time was eased with CAD, you can adjust things very quickly. Pens and all melarky isnt so easy in that repect.


    I myself am always experimenting with CAD - at the moment I tend to use the grey scale and line thickness to produce my drawings. Its quite tricky but the effect I think works. Colour CAD drawings dont seem to have the same visual qualities.

    I would recommend you jump in the deep end and use Vectaworks, as most architects are using this and its better to have the full programe if you can afford it as the quality of drawing with be better. You can get Vectaworks with a landscaping package. I use Keyplanting on old AutoCAD2000, I am behind the times but hope to upgrade to Vectaworks.

    At the beginning I largly taught myself to use AutoCAD and found the training was sooon forgotten, instead I tended to learn about CAD with on the job experience. Fork out for the software not the course.

    Sorry to rant on!
  • PRO
    I am doing some work for a company called Adler Recruitment. They posted yesterday that taking a CAD course could help employment prospects.

    They do however deal with engineering as well as landscape architecture.
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