Anyone for Dr Shigo

We live just off a small village that has a fine church with many handsome trees in the surrounding churchyard. Next to the church is what used to be the old schoolhouse with a splendid old willow out front. One pub in the village did have a big lebanon cedar in the garden but they needed to cut it down so as they could get insured. Its not been the same pub since.
--- very late into a Sunday night I left this comment for LJN member John, who has a lot of letters after his name in arboriculture consultancy.

At 4:35am on 2nd March 2009, pete said... Hello John, I'm not qualified to do tree climbing work but I have my silky and I'm always precise with it and very caring for each tree. Thing is, I can't get over how many pruning jobs I've seen that leave the trees looking just plain ugly, especially birch, this surely cannot be the right way to care for a tree. I've read a bit about Alex Shigo and would like to know more. What do you think of his methods? If you do rate him, would there be a chance you could pen a short piece about him for the LJN people. Best wishes to you, - Pete.

What I was hoping for was someone who'd be able to get across to us how important trees really are - from making oxygen to, ....well..... just to look at - try and imagine not seeing any ... Trees have always been with us and they're part of us. I believe we were evolved at a time when things were more beautiful in the world and that "beauty" is therfore kind of important to us, ...

Then at 9:00am on 2nd March a truckload of blokes arrive in our village and perform surgery on the willow.

"Correct pruning leads to healthy, beautiful and safe trees" "Correct pruning begins with an understanding of branch anatomy"

"Alex Shigo disputed the validity of many techniques that the arboricultural industry has used for over a century. His work "proved" that old techniques were shown to be unnecessary or, even worse, harmful".
"He found that trees respond to injuries by sealing the wounded area through the process of "compartmentalization".
Instead of "healing" like our skin, an injury to a tree trunk results in the surrounding cells changing themselves chemically and physically to prevent the spread of decay. New cells are produced by cells lining the cut area to cover and seal the injured area. Instead of trees healing, trees actually seal."
"Bad news is, many commercial arborists continue to perform flush cuts, toppings, and other practices that Dr. Shigo's research shows to be harmful. In many cases, arborists perform these practices knowing they are harmful, but believing their business cannot survive by practicing their craft under Shigo guidelines".

-- I at last got hold of the fellow to ask about this willow (came 2nd in a hedge-laying comp.) and he said to me "yeah, pollarded willow, what's the matter with that? I saw them do it - good job - only took 3 hours - at least £40k worth of kit" - apparently its been done like this two or three times over the last 20 years. - My mate has gone down in my estimation - or maybe this wasn't quite the right occasion to talk of Dr Shigo.

The photo illustrates your points precisely, it is in essence a 'good job' and characteristic of the standard practices of tree surgery now in England; i.e. this species has a reputation for becoming dangerous quickly, considering it's position the surgery work was necessary and I am pleased that they didn't simply remove the whole tree. The truth is that this tree should never have been planted in such a setting - although it is possible to continue to grow here, an annual or at the very least every two years pruning schedule is required.

For many councils the problem would be solved by paying for the removal and replanting with a more suitable tree. But the idea that budgeting for future management towards urban trees does seem to be alien to councils, who now appear to operate on a 'who shouts loudest wins' management regime.

When D R Helliwell, introduced a system for valuing trees, it should have led to standardising the value of trees across the UK - it now seems to be utilised as a good back up, maybe this is because some of the actual costs of the trees when evaluated through this method did not match with land or property values and as such remained relatively low. However this is only one of several factors needed to be able to tell the true value of a tree.

The Environmental value - The storage of CO2 and remediation ; The Ecological value - Its biodiversity and habitat value ; The 'Actual' value - The price tag of a tree, if you had to replace it at the same age and size ; The Holistic value - What this tree means to different people ; The Timber value - the current market value of the wood, as well the 'Helliwell' value. This equals serious money and as such any flippancy towards operations on any tree need to be more heavily justified.

I have to say that many councils will listen to the populace and lobbyists with regards trees. It is easy to place TPO's sometimes for fairly scant reasons; but this in turn has led to another problem, where due to the nature of TPO's and Conservation Areas, the bureaucracy required to allow for management has led to no management at all.

Replies

PRO

Paul @ Ashgate Garden Care April 12, 2009 at 10:18pm

Hi Pete,

Yours is not an unfamiliar tale. I live on a 1990's housing estate that was planted out with some lovely Norwegian maples, cherries and birches that should be developing into nice trees by now.

Unfortunately most of them have been butchered by many so called tree surgeons whose only qualification is a NPTC chainsaw ticket. I despair when I walk around our estate and see tree after tree that looks like an over sized hat stand. It makes me wonder if the general public think this is how a tree should look like if it is 'managed' properly.

I've spent the best part of a year studying arboriculture so I can learn how to prune and look after trees properly and offer my customers a decent, professional job that will not harm the tree. However, sometimes I wonder why I have invested so much time and money when I am going to compete against people who do not care for the trees they are working on.

Maybe if their was a bit more public awareness about what a tree should look like when it has been pruned it may help, or is it just a case of your average punter is not bothered as long as the tree does not shade their garden, block their sky reception or drop leaves on their land in Autumn ?
dgeorgea April 13, 2009 at 8:54am

I hate the way our trees have been managed, which is to butcher them every 4 to 5 years in the belief that the more you cut them back the less you have to spend on them over the years. We did some more earlier this year, and I had said to get advice from whoever we contracted but found out later that the instructions given were to cut back to the last time they were 'pruned'.

A part of me is dissapointed with the so called 'specialists' we took on were more than happy to do this, but if this is what the customer insists on what can you do?

At the same time I will say that who ever was in charge of the tree planting needed to be shot.

We are getting rid of 13 trees later this year, this should allow us to get rid of the worst of the trees, and hopefully allow some of the others to grow more naturally. If we bother to listen to the advice we are being given.
Sustainable Land Management April 13, 2009 at 9:23am

Dr Shigo is just one of a growing number of 'heavyweight' academic tree specialists. The American's and Canadiens have spent large sums of money on research and have come up with systems ideal for modern tree management. In France the care and attention given to urban trees is incredible, they rarely use machinery and concentrate on a form to suit the root systems for longevity; as a result they can sit back and enjoy some of the best displays of urban tree management in Europe.

'The body language of trees', (Claus Mattheck & Helg Breloer), published by The Stationery Office, is an essential book for arborists and used in accordance with recognised good practice will allow for the correct pruning regime to be followed. And 'The Arboriculturalists Companion' by N D G James, has a succinct guide to pruning based on Shigo's research - as such it should really be the normal practice in the UK now.

The Arboricultural Association, based in the UK, is probably the best source of ongoing information and research into tree management in the world. It's contibutors come from all over the world and yet there is a distinct hole between the academic research and those on the ground. It is not the fault of the professionals on the ground as the council's and larger utility companies continue to ignore any advice which does not fall into two categories: Speed of Operation and Cost.
PRO

Phil Voice April 13, 2009 at 10:07am

Great topic this one.

As I live in France, I have come to witness the great care the French give to their trees and the importance they put on the role a tree plays in, not only the landscape, but the connection and effect it has on their lives. Trees are meeting places, shade and important barriers and breath atmosphere into towns and cities.

I have not read anything by Shigo but it has stimulated me to do so.

One thing has always niggled me about pollarding. I can see it invigorates and stimulates growth and literally breaths new life into a tree but I have always wanted to prune anything that channels energy into the healthiest part of the tree or shrub; pollarding (which I agree with and love when it is carried out well) appears to cut off that energy both literally and symbolically as though it has been clubbed with a blunt instrument.

I have also always viewed business as if it was a tree. Both have an infrastructure, that when they start to become extremely overburdened, the surgeon or business owner starts to select the ailing or ineffective wood and pares it away - sometimes this includes the roots (management).

As an aside - it would help all topics if we could link directly to information that supports the conversation.

Dr Alex Shigo website - Shigo on Tree Systems

Blog post International Society of Arboriculture - Review of Dr. Shigo's Tree Biology series

Some fine examples of pollarded London Plane in the Ville de Sarlat France
Sustainable Land Management April 13, 2009 at 6:48pm

One factor, as briefly mentioned above is insurance. The insurance companies jumped on the bandwagon of 'root damage' and as such have used the term many times to avoid paying up. I was once hired by a legal firm to asses the possibility of an apple tree, which was supposedly, according to the insurance company, responsible for a garage subsiding. The apple tree in question was 5 years old and over 10 metres from the garage, we had to dig several trenches and write a lot of blurb before the insurance guys had to admit they talking rubbish. Who has allowed them to comment on this!. Subsequently I have heard the phrase used so many times with regards urban trees, usually when the tarmac has been laid right up to the basal area 50 years after the tree was planted. There are guidelines available to all with regards what should be done when planting in an urban setting and yet they are rarely adhered to. Oh boy this thread could get me going for years, deep breaths.
PRO

Phil Voice April 13, 2009 at 6:54pm

Here you go Pete - The willow in question
pete April 13, 2009 at 11:31pm

That's the boy - thanks Phil, looks like he's been through the mill before. As you say CSL, speed of operation and cost, - my friend reckoned, with all their equipment, that this job could have cost a thousand pounds, it took them about three hours.
Sustainable Land Management April 14, 2009 at 9:18am

The photo illustrates your points precisely, it is in essence a 'good job' and characteristic of the standard practices of tree surgery now in England; i.e. this species has a reputation for becoming dangerous quickly, considering it's position the surgery work was necessary and I am pleased that they didn't simply remove the whole tree. The truth is that this tree should never have been planted in such a setting - although it is possible to continue to grow here, an annual or at the very least every two years pruning schedule is required.

For many councils the problem would be solved by paying for the removal and replanting with a more suitable tree. But the idea that budgeting for future management towards urban trees does seem to be alien to councils, who now appear to operate on a 'who shouts loudest wins' management regime.

When D R Helliwell, introduced a system for valuing trees, it should have led to standardising the value of trees across the UK - it now seems to be utilised as a good back up, maybe this is because some of the actual costs of the trees when evaluated through this method did not match with land or property values and as such remained relatively low. However this is only one of several factors needed to be able to tell the true value of a tree.

The Environmental value - The storage of CO2 and remediation ; The Ecological value - Its biodiversity and habitat value ; The 'Actual' value - The price tag of a tree, if you had to replace it at the same age and size ; The Holistic value - What this tree means to different people ; The Timber value - the current market value of the wood, as well the 'Helliwell' value. This equals serious money and as such any flippancy towards operations on any tree need to be more heavily justified.

I have to say that many councils will listen to the populace and lobbyists with regards trees. It is easy to place TPO's sometimes for fairly scant reasons; but this in turn has led to another problem, where due to the nature of TPO's and Conservation Areas, the bureaucracy required to allow for management has led to no management at all.
Sustainable Land Management April 14, 2009 at 9:44am

Further to the 'values' statement, I would like to say that if the population at large was made more aware of such values, then maybe we as a profession will start to see more recognition for what we do - after all these are real and in a future set to become more sustainable by default - we are worth considerably more than estate agents etc, who have never earned any proffessional status.
pete October 12, 2009 at 3:22am

the willow tree seven months on....