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  Scott Fairley September 26, 2013 at 7:25pm

  Hi Ryan

  If you're just getting into using computers as a drafting tool Sketchup is a good starting point, particularly if you have the full version with the layout tool which allows you to display elevations, scales and apply title blocks. I suppose the limitation is when producing construction details or quantifying the materials or plants on a plan.

  We use a combination of Autocad, Adobe Illustrator and Sketchup on our plans. We're also looking at an Autocad plugin which counts plants and materials quantities vs Vectorworks Landmark, with the view of committing either way next month. I'm sick of counting plants on my drawings.

  One bit of advice I'd suggest is to get a topographical survey done of any complex sites and import it either into Sketchup or Autocad (or equiv.), so you have a true scale base plan to work from. We bought our own total station for just this purpose.

  I've attached a couple of drawings to show what we get up to on that front. I've attached a plan of a summerhouse we designed with Sketchup a few years ago vs the as-built to show that it can be a useful representation, showing scale and proportion as well as indicative finishes. (rather than a photographic image).

  Best of luck.

  Forgot to mention that there is a free Autocad compatible program which might be worth a try: http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight/download-draftsight/

  Scott
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  Jenny Bloom September 27, 2013 at 9:51pm

  I use Vectorworks and would not be without it. But each to his own. My projects are all relatively small urban gardens. I can do the survey myself and then draw up in Vectorworks. Brilliant. I have also done a few projects where Architects have done an extension and since they also work in Vectorworks, we can share drawings and sometimes work in tandem.
  From the survey layer I can do the design, and once that is approved, then the planting layer. I love the flexibility of being able to switch on and off as many layers or classes as you want to create to make the document practical for your own use - and to present to client. No more hand labelling!! It is great to have everything one document that can be amended really easily (no tedious scratching out).
  Although I could do A1 or larger format on Vectorworks,because most of my projects are are fairly small urban gardens, even at 1:50, I can print them out from home on an affordable A3 printer so rarely have to make the journey to a print shop (even if I tape a couple of sheets together occasionally). But if I need to, I can email them the file to print out and pick it up when it suits (or they can deliver).
  I have not tried other CAD programmes TBH, but I am not sure they cater for planting plans as well as Vectorworks Landmark. I did try Sketch Up a couple of years ago but did not like it personally - Vectorworks is so much more precise and more easy to amend things in the design stage. You can still spend way too much time on computer designs as opposed to hand drawn (especially if you get into 3D) so it does not become cost effective against what you can charge the client. Personally I do not like the impersonal look of Sketch up (and similar) 3D garden designs, although I acknowledge it is a very useful bit of kit, easy to use and affordable. Also if everything is so super-realistic and looks so amazing graphically, the clients' expectations could be so elevated I wonder if clients might actually disappointed with the finished garden.
  As a sole practitioner, I have to use my time effectively and make my designs affordable for the clients. So, given that the majority of my gardens are fairly small scale, and that the majority of my clients have relatively low budgets (but often with high aspirations), I rarely do 3D work unless clients expressly ask for it and want to pay for it ;). I could do the 3D on Vectorworks in the same file and could add renders and textures etc if needed. But what I find is that for my clients and their budgets, all I need at the moment is a well presented and accurate design (scaled and annotated 2D plan) that landscapers can accurately quote (and build) from, along with some hand rendering and other visuals that help clients visualise what the garden will look like. Simplifying things in this way means that I can make the design more cost-effective and affordable so that clients can use more of their budget on the build. But I recognise that If I were working on larger scale rural or big budget projects this may not be quite so simple... Also if I were a larger company and could afford to employ a CAD monkey things may be different!
  Vectorworks is an investment, but it has definitely been worth it for me for where I am at now.
  All best
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  Mike Bradley September 28, 2013 at 9:32am

  I always used to produce hand drawn plans but since starting to use Sketchup about 18 months ago I find that, especially as a presentation tool for clients, there is no comparison. I would advise that you try the free download of Sketchup and input some of your existing work into it as a practice exercise. I find that if you produce a line plan first (save this) then colour it in (save this) and then use the coloured version to produce a 3D visual. This keeps things organised and enables a staged approach until you are more confident. Note that I still produce hand drawn plans for landscaper use. Sketchup styles also give you 'pretty' options too if the customer requires this. If you want to look at some of my work then there is a collection within Landscape Juice, or just search Mike Bradley in the Sketchup 3D warehouse. Hope this helps.
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  Paving Superstore September 28, 2013 at 10:54am

  Interested to know if there is a time saving benefit to using Sketchup over hand drawn plans or if the real benefit is the easier process for undertaking amendments / saving the files / getting updates to the clients.

  Thanks,

  George
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  Mandy Bailey September 29, 2013 at 9:58am

  Great advice thanks. I am still in the in-between camp. Being a new sole-practitioner I am still hand-drawing for most clients. I do have Google sketch-up pro, however, have never used the drawings to present to clients as yet. At this stage, I still prefer the look of a hand-drawn Master plan to a Google sketch-up one. I know it will have to move away from hand-drawn at some point as I get busier so it's great hear recommendations on the options available.

  Thanks
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  Ryan Mc Gee September 30, 2013 at 1:47pm

  Hi Guys,

  Firstly I want to say a big thank you for the replies. I think I love this website. I realise your replies take more than a couple of minutes to write and I really appreciate your time, hopefully I can help you guys out sometime.

  I am (hopefully) attaching three samples of my hand-drawn landscape proposals with sketch elevations to give you guys an idea of what I do. I think the elevations speak a thousand words and instantly give the customer a feel and sense of what you are proposing as I find certain people do not have a map-reading brain whereas others can ''get' a plan instantly. I have to say I am not a particular fan of alot of the 3-D colour rendered sketchup designs I have seen. I don't mean to dis anybody's work and please do not take insult, its just I think a line sketch looks more personal and soft and not too 'computer package' looking. That said I did see some very good examples but I imagine these can be time consuming as well. I like the idea of using the sketch up for a basic 3-D elevation to print out and overlay a quick 5-minute ink sketch which I can rescan as a pdf and pull back onto a computer plan (can I do this)?

  There are a few other options thorwn into the mix now such as Dynascape and Vectorworks which I have never heard of before but seem to be more lanscape orientated. I still have to get an understanding, and hopefully you caan help me, of how these things work. For example a lot of people have mentioned sketchup and once you have an elevation done you can then use layout (I may have got this wrong) to show cross sections and the scaled 2-d layout. This then tells me that you have to have a layout in your head and then design it in 3D first. (I must have this wrong as I don't think anyone could work this way). I would definately need to drawn up a 2-d survey to scale and start to scribble lines over it and then transfer onto a computer package of some sort. Am I correct in saying that you don't get sketchup free anymore? I downloaded something and it allowed me an 8-hour free trial.

  The next important thing is that the package would be compatable the other packages. Lets say an architect send me a Autocad plan of a new build and the site boundaries. Can I use this information in vectorworks, sketchup layout etc?

  People seem to mention that vectorworks is more expensive but Jenny you seem to be a big fan. How much would the likes of this package cost me? I had a quick look at their site and a presentation video but wasn't blown away. I like your enthusiam for it though and you seem to be in a similar situation to me.

  In the short term to get me started is their something available which would aloow me to label my own hand drawn plan and pull in sketches and title boxes etc. Usually the printing company scans my plans as a pdf so I would have to do the A1 drawing get it to the printers and then get it scanned then open it up and label it and resend it for printing.

  Considering I have access to CAD to I just take a week off for intense learning or maybe an hour each evening? Is autocad compatable with vectorworks or is vectorworks more simple at this early design stage. John, I also like the look of Dynascape, I assume it has the same process as CAD or vectorworks, the name sounds softer which I think my be giving me a false sense that it will be simple to use.

  I don't know if any of what I have typed above has made sense as my head is fried. I think I have to choose either Autocad (I have 2005), vectorworks (cost?) or Dynascape (cost) to create my 2-D plan and then pull this into sketchup if I want to create elevations for presentation purposes.

  Taking it a step further to create planting plans I have to get a plugin if I go Autocad route whereas Vectorworks and Dynascape is already adapted to create planting plans.

  Thanks for your patience guys, hopefully you give me a further bit of advice please..

  Many Thanks

  Ryan
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  Sue Barnes October 3, 2013 at 4:46pm

  Hi,

  We mainly undertake tree surveys, sometimes with very largeplots, we work with architecs so we 'have to' use autoCAD.
  We get around this by using 'Keyscape' LT Design pro .as a CAD engine this can then convert into numerous CAD year file types.
  Keyscapes is slightly cheaper than artisan, vectorworks. But for us it also as the add on of keytree which we use but we also use arborcad for tree plotting.
  The keyscapes, and i presuem vectorworks, once scald, works out the planting qty's and if you alter the bed sizes automatically alters the plant schedule - brilliant!
  I have had years and years of counting and manually changing schedules.
  It is cheap but it also a great time saver.
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  Sue Barnes October 3, 2013 at 4:47pm

  Sorry, typo's it isn't cheap, but it is cheape than full blown autoCAD !
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  Ryan Mc Gee October 9, 2013 at 10:50am

  Hi Susan,

  Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated
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  Ryan Mc Gee November 24, 2013 at 10:07pm

  Hi Guys,

  I have not made the move to computers yet as this last few months has just been crazy. I came across a system or company through an architect last week which interests called 'Trial Systems'.  Will now try to add a link, this will be the tell of my computer skills..

  Trial Systems - Landscape Express

  I think that worked!!  Have any of you guys heard of or have any experience of this system or company?  

  Hopefully you can help.  Thanks in advance

  Ryan