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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on March 14, 2012 at 22:54

Spray it with a selective to knock down the weeds, on the next visit mow it and then sow the meadow seeds a week after. Relay or spearhead will do the damage provided the weeds are not too big. If they are mow it, then fall back and spray a week later and slightly up the dosage of chemical, then mow and seed with a few days in between.

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Permalink Reply by David Benson on March 14, 2012 at 23:22

i did one afew years back full of rubbish and couch grass ect sprayed it all off ( if the grass is of a vigerous type it will kill the flowers off eventually) got the local farmer to disc and harrow it over. put a mix of medow seed and wild flower seed down with the spreader hope you have looked a the price of seed (yellow rattle- blimy) and you need somthing to cut it with at the back end when it will be 2 to 3 ft high

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Permalink Reply by Benedict Green on March 15, 2012 at 8:36

I think it may take time to reduce the fertility of the soil to make a native wildflower meadow viable. Depends on how patient the owners are. Another option is to sow a Pictorial Meadow style with some non natives, which seem to like a bit more fertility in the soil. I'm thinking of the Sheffield school mixes that Profs Nigel Dunnett and James Hitchmough have been working on for years and have used at the Olympic site. They are more showy that a native meadow and you could tailor a mix especially for your site.

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Permalink Reply by Rose Lennard on March 15, 2012 at 9:21

I've also read that the Pictorial Meadow mixes are designed to give best displays on fertile soils. You do need to get rid of existing vegetation first, which probably means spraying off with Glyphosate based product. However I recently read a report by the Ecologist on glyphosate/ Roundup, which uncovers more long term environmental impact than Monsanto would have you believe. Alternative ways of getting rid of the existing vegetation would be covering with some kind of weed control fabric for maybe 6 months of the growing season (doesn't look great and you need to be patient) or stripping all the turf, which has the added benefit if you're going for a native species mix of reducing fertility. The stripped turf then has to be disposed of - if you have room you can stack it to break down into loam for use elsewhere in the garden. I once stacked turf on an allotment site making big cubes with a hollow in the middle which I filled with a good compost mix and grew winter squash and courgettes in - they thrived. Otherwise: good old fashioned digging, burying all the weeds at least a spade's depth down, should do it, though you may still find that perennial weed roots need to be dug out separately. On a 1/2 acre scale I can't image any of these options are practical, unless you can get a local farmer in to plough, maybe spot treating dock, thistle and nettle in the first couple of years after that?

Yellow rattle does eventually weaken the vigour of grasses as it is parasitic, but only on grasses so this won't help any other weed problem. Incidentally, if you do go down the Pictorial Meadows route, there are annual mixes which have to be reseeded every year (expensive in seed and labour) but also perennial mixes with a proportion of annuals for the first year. For smaller areas you could try seeding into a sand mulch so that you don't disturb the soil and bring up more weed seeds, though for your 1/2 acre this would be a bit impractical.

Good luck - keep us posted!

www.chameleongardens.co.uk

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Paul McNulty on March 15, 2012 at 14:40

Thanks, interesting replies and some research to be done. If they go ahead I'm more concerned with the long-term outcome. The previous owners put a wild-flower seed down around ten years ago apparently, and there's not a trace of it to be seen. I've been doing the garden for seven years, so within about three years it had reverted to vigorous weeds! With open land all around you can't keep weed seeds out, and 1/2 acre is a lot to spot-weed.....

I'd rather they kept it as it is; keep the weeds down with regular mowing and let the kids use it as a playground. Rose, I'm certainly not going to hand-dig 1/2 an acre of nettles and docks! lol

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Helen Dawe on March 16, 2012 at 10:41

The way I would do it (for a traditional wildflower meadow rather than the Pictorial Meadow mixes) would be remove the turf and most of the topsoil (if not all of it, depending on what kind of subsoil you have) - you'll need a digger to do this but its the quickest way of reducing soil fertility.  Dig out any remaining perennial weed roots and break up any pans or compaction, rake it, but you then want to roll the area to create a firm, even base.  Leave for 2-3 weeks then hoe off / dig out / weedkill any reqrowth (if you are getting regrowth of pernicious perennials weeds, then you'll want to spray/dig out repeatedly until you get rid of them because its much harder to treat them once the meadow is sown, it really is worth putting in the effort to prepare the site properly).  Then sow wildflower mix and fine grasses (no rye grass etc) - bulbs can be a nice addition too.

Maintenance is key.  In the first year, mow every 6 weeks on high setting during growing season (remove clippings) - this should reduce the incursion of weeds and rye-grass while the meadow establishes, but it can affect seed-setting of some meadow species - if they don't appear in the second year, they will need selective re-sowing.  From second year onwards establish mowing regime suitable for the mix you planted (spring meadows - not mowed till they've finished flowering and seed ripened in midsummer, then cut down, hay left on ground for few days then gathered up, then mown regurlarly (remove all clippings) till end of growing season; summer meadows - mowed regularly till (remove clippings) june then left till seed ripens in autumn, then cut down, hay left on ground for a few days, then gathered up, then regular mowing (removing all clippings) till end of growing seeds.  When you cut meadows it needs to be to 40-75mm.

Perennial weeds will appear, but can generally be kept under control through the mowing regime (your client has to understand that it is a meadow not a border, and won't be 100% weed free).  you will have to some spot-treatment of weedkiller, pulling, or digging out of weeds though.

There's instructions on the Pictoral Meadows site about cultivation.  The annual mixes need cutting back and spraying in late autumn then reseeding every year.  The perennial mixes need spot treatment of weeds - they warn that they need more maintenance than a traditional wildflower meadow.

Seeds are expensive, but remember you only need 1-5g/sq m not the high rates you'd seed a lawn with.

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Permalink Reply by James Hewetson-Brown on March 17, 2012 at 11:53

We have had success with our Wildflower Turf on all sorts of soil types - there is a requirement for preparation with glyphosate and developing a tilth but once the turf is laid and it acts as a weed blanket to supress any weed seeds in the soil. With the annual maintenance of close cutting and removing the cuttings the fertility is gradually removed. With the turf the results are usually quick and a wildflower meadow is expected in the first year. Where fertility is high, it can take longer.

But it is a big area and I would advise trying a small area of it to see how it goes before covering it all in turf (ideally!)!

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Helen Dawe on March 17, 2012 at 13:12

Out of interest - does the wildflower turf maintained in the same way as a seeded meadow? And is it pricey?

It sounds like a product i could definately use.

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Permalink Reply by Jane Harries on March 19, 2012 at 18:00

I've not had problems with nettles and dock, however I have a wildflower patch in my own garden that's doing well, on fertile clay soil.  I let the grass grow and grew and bought plug plants.  I plant them in the autumn or spring before the grass has grown.  I've also got a lot of bulbs in there I inherited or planted and I think some of them inhibit the grass, eg snowdrops, bluebells and daffodils.  Things like scabious, campion, geranium sylvaticum, yarrow, vetch and especially knapweed are doing well.  You may want to see what grows wild in your area - put in your postcode here http://www.nhm.ac.uk/fff/index.html to see what's native.

I've not had success with yellow rattle but that's meant to inhibit the grasses as it's a parasite - scarify areas in autumn and sow fresh seed.  You could try sowing it now too.

Good luck!

Jane

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Permalink Reply by David Channon on March 19, 2012 at 20:01

We hired a minidigger for around £120 to strip the turf and make an insect bank with it.

We then sowed with with a sandy soil mix of insect friendly wildflowers and grasses. Along the woodland edge we sowed a bird friendly mix into which we planted semi-shade lovers such as foxgloves from plugs.

We also seeded with poppies to provide visual interest whilst the slower growers get away.

Still to go in are some fritillaries to provide some spring interest

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Permalink Reply by James Hewetson-Brown on April 2, 2012 at 9:37

Hi Helen, sorry I have only just seen your question.

Once the turf is established, the maintenance is the same as any meadow. The important job is to cut and remove the cuttings in the autumn - around mid September. This cut needs to be tight and whilst it leaves the area looking a bit stressed, there is enough autumn light and warmth to allow the area to green up before the winter. There is a lot of info on our website, but the idea is that you have a low maintenance area as with an established seeded meadow - it is just much easier and quicker to establish! We have quite a bit of customer feedback about maintenance that is slightly different from the above - as a way of extending the flowering season and I would be happy to go through this if it helps?

I hope this helps.

James

Helen Dawe said:

Out of interest - does the wildflower turf maintained in the same way as a seeded meadow? And is it pricey?

It sounds like a product i could definately use.

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