Replies to This Discussion

Premium SupplierPermalink Reply by Gerry Sims on February 7, 2012 at 13:37

Hi Ian,

I guess I should have said many small businesses as clearly not everyone will see enough advantage to change.

The type of micro business I was thinking of were the one-man-bands where either the proprietor or often his/her partner have to ‘do the books’ but find it tiresome or a distraction. It is often too inconvenient or expensive to have a bookkeeper. The result is frequently records that are poorly managed, updated late, deadlines missed and of no use in tracking business performance. Then at the year end an accountant is paid to redo the whole lot to make sense of it. The time spent on maintaining the records is thought of as free but there has to be some cost attached either in terms of hours that could be spent in the business (not necessarily hands-on labouring but marketing etc.) or lost leisure time.

So, how does online as opposed to desktop software help. Well in my view because it cuts out the need for a bookkeeper/accountant to physically interact with you (that’s a scary thought but I hope it makes sense !). By being able to virtually drop all your paperwork into an online box and leave it to someone else to manage or even have an expert looking over your shoulder as you do it, it is possible (not always so of course) that the gains made outweigh the extra costs. I fully accept that many micro-businesses produce perfectly good records from desktop software and maintain the security to safeguard it.

In terms of frontline cost there are packages such as AccountsPortal which cost me £6 + VAT per month which I pass on to my clients or include in my fee. This includes updates as they are made (VAT changes for instance), support and even amendments suggested to them. The accountant can then log in to see not just a P&L etc. but the underlying makeup (useful if the client’s bookkeeping is not reliable). I also use real-time monitoring to help with ad hoc queries (VAT errors, reports for the bank etc.).

Regarding your last comment I think you are referring to data backup. What most providers do as well as making their own very frequent backups is to email (or make available in other ways) a full data backup in .csv format. Granted you have to store this but it is just a file that you need to keep securely in exactly the same way as the backup of your desktop QB data. In fact you are relieved of the chore of making that backup in most cases. You don’t need to put the .csv file into a spreadsheet unless you have to restore the data, in which case you are into some hassle with online or desktop systems.

I probably haven’t convinced you and if you’re happy with what you’re doing then there’s no reason why I should but hopefully others can see that there is value in working with these online systems over and above just the cost of the software.

Tim's reply above shows how his firm are already seeing some benefits.

Ian @ redbarrow.com said:

An interesting and insightful article.

Although it would be great to be part of the vanguard of online accounting, no doubting it is the future, but believe on cost alone it would only really benefit a larger concern. 

 "it really can be of great value to even the smallest business."

There's few smaller than my little one-man-band, so use Quickbooks simple start, cost £70, and which should last a few years. Currently, through a utility package can produce .pdf copies of P&L or Balance Sheet at any time, and post in Google docs for free should an accountant wish to view online. The size of the business alone means there's no requirement for 'real time' monitoring on any regular basis.

As well as the increased cost of the cloud solution, there is also the added overhead in that the solution providers recommend importing all of your .csv files into a spreadsheet on your own computer, as they don't offer a guarantee or accept liability for data loss.  Highly unlikely, granted, but who'd be prepared to run the risk?

Don't quite see the 'great value' you speak of Gerry, not yet, especially for us smaller set ups, but am open to be convinced!

 

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Ian @ Redbarrow East Sussex on February 8, 2012 at 10:06

Gerry, thanks for that.

You've convinced me of the time-saving, the bank statement import & reconciliation tools alone would save plenty.

Also take your point regarding the .csv file only needing to be downloaded as is, and stored locally as backup.

Back to cost..interesting to compare the features offered by AccountsPortal and Xero on their unlimited package, they appear very similar, yet Xero is more than twice the price of AccountsPortal?

In time, I'll certainly consider moving to cloud should the business grow and/or bookkeeping becomes a real chore.

 

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Permalink Reply by Kev Thompson on February 11, 2012 at 20:32

Hi Guys just to make you all aware ...i,ve been introduced to a fantastic cloud accounting package designed for small businesses ... from quotations to purchase orders and invoicing to finacial reports. just £49.00per month for unlimited use or pay as you go if you tend to do small number of invoices.. but very very good

i only want to give quality leads to him ..so if anyone is interested just message me your name and contact numbers and im sure that he will amaze you like he amazed me

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Nick @ NM Garden Services Ltd on February 11, 2012 at 20:41

I am sure it is great but I cant see many people paying £600 per year every year for an accountancy package (cloud or otherwise).
Nick.

Kev Thompson said:

Hi Guys just to make you all aware ...i,ve been introduced to a fantastic cloud accounting package designed for small businesses ... from quotations to purchase orders and invoicing to finacial reports. just £49.00per month for unlimited use or pay as you go if you tend to do small number of invoices.. but very very good

i only want to give quality leads to him ..so if anyone is interested just message me your name and contact numbers and im sure that he will amaze you like he amazed me

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Permalink Reply by Jacqueline Prout on February 12, 2012 at 11:18

I was recommended Kashflow by my bookkeeper it does the job for me. Really easy to use for quotes and invoices.  Good support and back-up and will listen and take suggested changes seriously and implements them if appropriate.  http://www.kashflow.com  Give the free trial ago.

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Permalink Reply by karen t on February 12, 2012 at 13:36

Like Gary RK, we use QB Pro and Qxpress for accounting and scheduling, but are looking for 'cloud based' software to enable work schedules to be accessed from any pc/mobile, and sent direct to employees mobiles. Our problem is that whilst QXpress is ideally suited to our business, and integrates with QB, their support is abysmal and we have been unable to get a response to our request for information on cloud based systems. I would be interested to know how you manage using Logmein? 'Lesser' accounting software may work for smaller /one man businesses, but in the UK, most business accountants will point you in the direction of sage or Quickbooks. Any further suggestions of suitable accounting software sharing data and invoicing with intergrated scheduling software would be welcome!

Gary RK said:

Gerry, I agree - I can see this happening for cloud packages as the XML interface to achieve this is open standards.

The problem is; Will the providers invest the effort for a relatively small user base ?

We are there and past that point (partly due to my background).  We know that QB have their new Online accounts package and are carefully watching what the suppliers of our Scheduling/WIP package are doing (they already have a online version of their desktop package).

I agree, things will change and may move quick, BUT in the meantime you need an 'eyes wide open' approach :-)

Would be happy to show online via LogMeIn how this works in practice for us. We effectively emulate 'online' by using LogMeIn to gain access anywhere to desktop based solution from  iPad/iPhones.

For me ? QB Pro, Qxpress & LiberRate. Get those 3 packages "online & talking" and you'd wipe the floor....

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Gary RK on February 12, 2012 at 14:29

Karen, it sounds like we do what you are trying to do with the same desk top based software, this is very specific so I suggest i don't clog up this thread and we discuss separately ?

Also, the new QB online and QX online solutions available should also offer what you are after, but it is a one way journey to a hosted/cloud solution which is expensive with monthly re curring costs from both providers.

Alocet were taken over by marathon data systems last year and I know they've had settling in problems.

The real benefit with any tightly integrated suite of products is single data entry from estimate/quote all the way through to invoicing with a little CRM thrown in....it can and does work with a little lateral thinking ;-)

I still maintain they are 'best in class' solutions ...but then I would, wouldn't I ........:-)

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Premium SupplierPermalink Reply by Peter Woolnough on February 13, 2012 at 17:59

Hi Karen,

i use a company called Higher concepts software for our hire side of the business, they may be able to help as we schedule all our deliveries etc on it and you can also have a mobile handset that allows for realtime updating of next job and job changes, they can collect signatures for jobs and they can also add jobs themselves to the system if required and it all links back into QB or Sage.

Its just a thought.

Peter

karen t said:

Like Gary RK, we use QB Pro and Qxpress for accounting and scheduling, but are looking for 'cloud based' software to enable work schedules to be accessed from any pc/mobile, and sent direct to employees mobiles. Our problem is that whilst QXpress is ideally suited to our business, and integrates with QB, their support is abysmal and we have been unable to get a response to our request for information on cloud based systems. I would be interested to know how you manage using Logmein? 'Lesser' accounting software may work for smaller /one man businesses, but in the UK, most business accountants will point you in the direction of sage or Quickbooks. Any further suggestions of suitable accounting software sharing data and invoicing with intergrated scheduling software would be welcome!

Gary RK said:

Gerry, I agree - I can see this happening for cloud packages as the XML interface to achieve this is open standards.

The problem is; Will the providers invest the effort for a relatively small user base ?

We are there and past that point (partly due to my background).  We know that QB have their new Online accounts package and are carefully watching what the suppliers of our Scheduling/WIP package are doing (they already have a online version of their desktop package).

I agree, things will change and may move quick, BUT in the meantime you need an 'eyes wide open' approach :-)

Would be happy to show online via LogMeIn how this works in practice for us. We effectively emulate 'online' by using LogMeIn to gain access anywhere to desktop based solution from  iPad/iPhones.

For me ? QB Pro, Qxpress & LiberRate. Get those 3 packages "online & talking" and you'd wipe the floor....

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