Replies to This Discussion

PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Nick @ NM Garden Services Ltd on March 1, 2012 at 21:10

Dan

I dont want to get into an argument and falling out but I know that on the gardens which we do where there is an acre of grass to cut we can carry it out in an hour or so. This is with collection and we are efficient.

I would be delighted to invite you down and show you :)

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Premium SupplierPermalink Reply by Peter Woolnough on March 1, 2012 at 22:19

That is a great find Gary.

It will help me now end when people ask me about our kit.

Peter

Gary RK said:

For accurate details go here;

For medium to large mowers:: http://www.exmark.com/Products/Productivity/

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Premium SupplierPermalink Reply by Peter Woolnough on March 1, 2012 at 22:55

Hi Jason,

Just so as you are aware, this is me with my dealer as well as end user hat on.

I use the Avant range of equipment for our own contract mowing operations on the landscape & maintenance side of our business.

I run the 1500 mower deck on both a 528 Avant and a 635 Avant.

Depending upon your budget and the amount of grass you actually have to cut, we have both Petrol and Diesel options available and also an LPG option on the 500 series machines.

We have mower decks with collecting options as well as side discharge and mulching.

If you need to collect the cuttings, the machines have telescopic booms which makes it very easy to emtpty into trailers and truck bodies, no manpower required.

Depending upon what other landscaping and maintenace projects you under take, you will find that the Avant will double up as a fork lift, bulk material carrier, dumper, road sweeper, snow plough, the list just goes on.

Your forward speed is around 12km/h about 7.5 mph so you can get a fair bit done and by using Gary RK's web find that would equate to with a 1200 deck at 80% would be 2.75 acres an hour or with a 1500 deck at 80% would be 3.5 acres an hour.

If you would like any further info on the Avant range or a catalogue either look at our Website or email me Peter@ReachitMoveitCrushit.com

This is a link to the mower options on our site ~  Mower options

You are not very far away so if you would like a demo just get in contact.

Peter

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by David Cox on March 2, 2012 at 9:01

Just checked - using an Alpine tractor (30hp) I am assured by you can cut about 2 - 4 Acres an hour with a 4ft flail mower depending on how wet and long the grass is!

Im going to time myself on my 1 acre cut (ok its 0.8 acres but has lots of curves) - Its first cut will be next week!

Nick Is the grass on your 1acre quite short / so less often stopping to empty the box? It does seem very fast to me... Are we deffinatley talking an acre, and not a garden the customer calls "an acre" - I have alot of .25 acre gardens that customers seem to think are an acre!

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Permalink Reply by Jason Bright on March 3, 2012 at 7:01

Thanks everyone for help and suggestions.
As I am a new start up business (Nov 2011) this will be my first commercial contract so all the help I receive on LJN is greatly appreciated, Thanks once again.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on March 3, 2012 at 11:44

Post has gone seriously off topic. Jason, above you have said you started 4 months ago, is this correct ?.

Hi Jason. I don't won't to take the wind out of your sails, but can you give us a bit about your experience, skills, qualifications etc etc. Going after a decent sized commercial contract isn't straight forward as you might think, and if you get it, and get it wrong it will snap you like a twig (its got very little to do with acres per hour, don't get caught up in that thinking), servicing the contract is even more difficult.

Depending on the contract owner,(property management company, HA, residents Asocc. Council, Facilities management company to name a few),  they MAY require you to have a lot of things in place like H & S, EOP's, RAMS, all certificates, licence's and accreditations like PA1/PA6, Lantra / NPTC, CHAS, EA, PQQ qualified through constructionline, carry £5m PLI, financially sound, have 3-5 years past accounts, references from other large projects you have done in the past or are still contracted to do. They may also want written evidence of your ability to service the contract should your business suffer a "business interuption", like your business unit burns down or gets broken into and all your kit gets stolen. These are all requirements that you will come across in the commercial fields of this industry.

I'm highlighting all of the above because this is stuff you need to be aware of. The post got side tracked by acres per hour cutting rate which is of no use to you at this stage.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Adam Pilgrim on March 3, 2012 at 12:10

I have been following this topic with interest.

The biggest thing in recommending a machine is its suitability for the task at hand. Basically meaning is it the most cost effective and efficient machine for the job.

Do you need to cut and mulch, cut and collect or just discharge - I am assuming this is stipulated in the contract - also what is the frequency of cutting? 

The roadside verges mentioned, are these short and flat or long and banked? How good is the access to the areas in the housing estates?  Note side discharge machine would not be good in a built up area, or near roads etc.... Do you need to blower cuttings from paths/roads etc after cutting?

I have a wide variety of machinery in my business, everything from a 16" push Mountfield through varying sizes and types of Hayter, a 28" Snapper ride on, a 36" Toro Proline (basically a Scag in disguise) and a 60" odd Toro out front diesel mulching mower - I can cover MOST eventualities with these.

A set of gang mowers cover larger areas quickly but can be expensive to run and are not really suited to roadside verge cutting where there may be hidden debris that could damage cylinders, but a wide area out front rotary might not fit  through some gaps in housing estates...

Great Danes look good machines and I know of people that use them with success, however a petrol machine may be seriously thirsty over a large area.

Just my thoughts!

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Permalink Reply by Colin Hunt on March 3, 2012 at 12:30

I agree with all below.  Moving from private contracts to small commercial to medium commercial to large commercial needs careful consideration.  A 25% under estimation on private work will usually be a nuisance; a 25% error on large Commercial could be the end of your business and credibility.

That’s not to say it’s not worth a go – but proceed with caution and don’t rush the quote!

www.mibservices.co.uk said:

Post has gone seriously off topic. Jason, above you have said you started 4 months ago, is this correct ?.

Hi Jason. I don't won't to take the wind out of your sails, but can you give us a bit about your experience, skills, qualifications etc etc. Going after a decent sized commercial contract isn't straight forward as you might think, and if you get it, and get it wrong it will snap you like a twig (its got very little to do with acres per hour, don't get caught up in that thinking), servicing the contract is even more difficult.

Depending on the contract owner,(property management company, HA, residents Asocc. Council, Facilities management company to name a few),  they MAY require you to have a lot of things in place like H & S, EOP's, RAMS, all certificates, licence's and accreditations like PA1/PA6, Lantra / NPTC, CHAS, EA, PQQ qualified through constructionline, carry £5m PLI, financially sound, have 3-5 years past accounts, references from other large projects you have done in the past or are still contracted to do. They may also want written evidence of your ability to service the contract should your business suffer a "business interuption", like your business unit burns down or gets broken into and all your kit gets stolen. These are all requirements that you will come across in the commercial fields of this industry.

I'm highlighting all of the above because this is stuff you need to be aware of. The post got side tracked by acres per hour cutting rate which is of no use to you at this stage.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Dan Frazer Gardening on March 3, 2012 at 12:32

Equally, the topic isn't 'how do I get this contract'... it is 'which machine do I need for the grass cutting element of the contract', hence understanding areas and what a machine is capable of and some ideas of which machines to consider is totally relevant!

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on March 3, 2012 at 13:22

Hi Dan, sorry bud but not even relevant at this stage if he can't get past the first few hurdles of the required paperwork first. It may well be that none of which I have mentioned is relevant to this contract, (all depends on who the customer is) but I doubt that some of the questions I asked are not. Given that Jason is a new start up business, who probably has not even cut much grass since he set up (November 2011) The post was side tracked somewhat to the original request and he never actually received much relevant information about what size / kind of mower options. THEE key business process is and always will be...... WIN the contract then worry about what relevant machines are needed. Get the contract and you can get / afford the the finance's to service the agreement, absolutely no point in worrying about machine requirements / cutting ability at this early stage of the tender process.

IF Jason is successfull then all the technical arguement's and opinions on the machines required come to the fore, but NEVER should it come before having the required paperwork in place to even get a sniff at competing at the differing stages of tender, because no correct paperwork ='s no chance of progressing the tender. Machine information / capabilities before paperwork in commercial work especially housing estate works is cart before horse stuff.

Case in point, today I have just had letter from a new customer I have won, a Property Management Company to commence maintenance works on a new-ish housing estate, 180 large detached houses and acres of open grass areas, I had to supply EVERY licence, NPTC & Lantra cert, PA1/ PA6, PLI, RAMS, EOP H&S etc etc along with my tender response forms.

 Jason is new to this game and I was concerned he was getting bamboozled with posts argueing over who could cut grass the quickest !!. And not getting the real facts of entering into contractual commercial agreements, as you know commercials are so much more complex than just going and mowing lawns for a living and that is not a slight on the members who mow lawns for a living before anyone takes offence.

Dan Frazer Gardening said:

Equally, the topic isn't 'how do I get this contract'... it is 'which machine do I need for the grass cutting element of the contract', hence understanding areas and what a machine is capable of and some ideas of which machines to consider is totally relevant!

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Dan Frazer Gardening on March 3, 2012 at 13:55

Yep all true but sometimes I like to avoid giving advice if it's not asked incase someone takes umbrage at being told how to do their job. Jason may know a lot more than we think, but who knows!

It's hard to balance looking for machinery for potential contracts vs ignoring machinery until contract award. I'd hate to win a contract and have problems getting the right tool to service the work in the first couple of visits. BUt if the finances are there in writing then at least you can make a financial commitment.

My instinct here is that Jason, if he gets the work, needs a rough cut mower such as a scag, and a reasonable size ride-on to do the flat work. Scags won't do a good enough cut for most residential areas. Hard to find a do-it-all machine.

Jason, if you can supply all the info the client requests, best of luck to you, a good contract can really set up a small business in the early stages. Don't be put off by lack of experience, it's a steep curve and I'm still on it. If you know you can service the area then you can bid as well as anyone else if you work at it.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on March 3, 2012 at 14:14

Yep all true but sometimes I like to avoid giving advice if it's not asked incase someone takes umbrage at being told how to do their job. Jason may know a lot more than we think, but who knows!

Totally agree Dan, thats why I begged the questions in my first and second response posts. I could well be doing him a disservice, but I doubt he has the experience / knowledge in the commercial game as he is asking for "what mower" do you recommend. No disrespect intended to Jason at all, but I / we / other members can only take from that, that he is inexperienced and as such needs our collective brains and hands on experiences to help take him forward on this tender bid. I SO wish I had the access to the knowledge on LJN when I started up a decade ago, would have saved myself a lot of grief in the first 3-5 years.

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