Open Association of Landscape Industries
Under paid, under valued?
I read an article recently in the RHS Garden magazine by Alan Titchmarsh where he was talking about how undervalued gardeners and landscapers seem to be compared to other trades. It hasnt been helped with that idiot David Cameron putting us in the same bracket as litter pickers and branding us unskilled.
I think Alan is spot on. I studied for years, gained a degree in Landscape and Garden Management and have worked on the job for over ten years now and happen to think I am a very skilled tradesman, yet some people still scoff at paying more than £15 per hour. I recently had my car in for a service and their labour rates were £50 per hour!!! We must be the lowest paid trade of them all and I for one think things should change.
I was wondering how much other people charge?
If anyone wants me to upload the article I will.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by T & S Plants on
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From a suppliers point of view, and my experience in Horticulture since 1980, the undervaluing of our industry has been around since I started.
Our industry will always be undervalued, until we all move on, and think bigger and better.
I can only comment on plant prices, as I have only ever sold plants.
In 1980 the "average" plant price for a 3 litre plant was £1.00
In 2012, 32 years later, the "average" plant price is £3.00
On the basis of inflation over these 32 years, the "average" plant price should be £4.00. However as Growers we work on prices 25% lower than inflation over this period, and carry the costs.
So lowering the standard of Horticulture starts with those that sell Horticulture.
Cheap is nowhere, quality always shines through.
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on -
IMHO Gary, a 60 / 40 split, 60 having the hands on skills and 40 on the trade knowledge to actually know about the materials, plants and machines your using / working with. Experience is an absolute must, but combining it with the associated C & G, HNC SGD or lantra training courses is an excellent "bolt on" to you and your business presentation and professionalism
Gary RK said:Just another thought - how do you recognise and value 'experience' vs. 'qualifications' ?
Is the ideal, a mix of the two ?
If so, is there a ratio ?
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Nick @ NM Garden Services Ltd on -
Exactly.
Paul @ PPCH Services said:Always interesting to see how the focus is so often what others earn.
If those who shout the loudest actually took a harder look at their own business models then they would be halfway to putting right the problem they feel.
What the **** is the relevance to what a plumber, window cleaner, or even another grounds maintenance firm charge, at the end of the day to actually make money the focus must soley be on ones own charge out rate and ones own overheads!
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on -
Of course they have to be relevant to your trade, no point in studying for a course in hard landscape construction when your a maintenance company. I have and will always only do training that benefits my business, my staff, customers and myself. It's very easy to get sucked into irrelevant courses because they look and sound good, but in the current climate train for what your business needs for now and the near future.
Having said that, the difference between commercial and domestic work is huge and I have found I have had to undertake training (that I wouldn't normally do) because one very large customer insists that my staff and I have done the training and got our certs. for that particular part of the work we do for them. I come up against this all the time in commercial work, but it's 95% of my company's sales, so we need to comply with their H & S policies, not easy though !!!!!!.
Ian @ redbarrow.com said:My only caveat with qualifications is that they should be relevant.
For instance, I did a 2-day Manual Handling 'Train the trainer' course a few years ago, taught me nothing that common sense hadn't already, and therefore proved to be a total waste of time and money (other than being CV candy) :)
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Permalink Reply by Colin Hunt on -
I echo your thoughts Paul. If you envy what a plumber or electrician earns, then go and do their job! You can’t because you aren't qualified? Then there's your starter for 10! Compulsory certification means higher earnings.
I like the idea mentioned earlier from America, being licensed would go a long way to easing the gardening/landscaping industry into the 21st century. It would also go some way to eliminating the black economy, which acts like an anchor to our rates. It would of course then spawn a whole host of compulsory (some meaningless) qualifications
As this won’t happen it’s us to you to make yourself and your company worth that little bit extra
Paul @ PPCH Services said:Always interesting to see how the focus is so often what others earn.
If those who shout the loudest actually took a harder look at their own business models then they would be halfway to putting right the problem they feel.
What the **** is the relevance to what a plumber, window cleaner, or even another grounds maintenance firm charge, at the end of the day to actually make money the focus must soley be on ones own charge out rate and ones own overheads!
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Permalink Reply by HM GARDENS on -
I have just taken on an apprentice who starts college next week, and I have explained the industry is not that well paid long term but but I could not pay the minimum wage of £2.90 something but pay more and he is worth more with good attitude and work ethic and have informed clients of this move and about assessments by the college on his work and it has gained me work and hope to slowly educate my clients with updates and they will be getting there moneys worth long term. It will be hard for me as I further build up work at the right prices.
There is a point that plumbers and electrician get paid more but there jobs are not regular bread and butter like maintenance and extra work can always be gained with our regulars, that's what I have found.
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Gary RK on -
Miranda, we also have a guy going thru the new Landscape apprenticeship scheme and we pay him an appropiate rate as we would if he had joined as a full time member of staff.H
e has turned out to be such an asset. He is so motivated, enthusiastic and full of ideas - some of which are really chalenging how we do things. There is 'never a dull moment' now.......;-)
Personally, I believe the NMW for an apprenticeship is a joke and slap in the face for the individual. Would never go there...
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Jen@A&J Owenwindows&gardens on -
You are talking about window cleaners offering the most basic cheap and cheerful service. There is one round here, ladders on back of mondeo, works mornings, fish and chips and then pm in betting shop! He's unreliable and we take work off him quite often when people just have enough of him.
It has to be said you could also set up a similar basic garden service for the same kind of layout - and i do mean basic.
Both types of outfit can charge rock bottom prices and quite probably in both cases do a rock bottom job. For all occupations, trades and professions there are people at the high end, low end and somewhere in between.
For your information, the window cleaning side of our business has probably cost us at least triple that the sum you mention this year alone. For example, a pole suitable to reach to 4/5 story houses could set you back £500/£600 - probably more. A 27ft pole alone cost us £227 earlier this year. It's not a cheap business to run as some may think.
Getting back to the discussion itself, as Paul and others have said, there is no point focusing on what others charge - whether it's in your line of work or others. Get your own prices right, keep a tight reign on costs and keep away from hourly rates if you can.
Matthew Crudgington said:
One thing to keep in mind when comparing ourselves to plumbers, electricians and other similar trades is the cost of these services over a couple of years. Just a weekly visit for a small garden can soon add up to a large amount for someone, whereas they would only have their plumber in every few years when something goes wrong.
Window cleaners on the other hand take the p***, charge the the same if not more, use a car with roofrack to afford increase car insurance, £200 of gear and away they go.
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Permalink Reply by Mark on -
Lol....today my Sat morning customer said to me at the end of my shift..."you haven't put your prices up for some time...it must be getting more expensive for you to operate" ..? ie please put your prices up !!!!! currently at £15 P/Hr...almost had to pinch myself !!!
Mark
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Gary RK on -
+1 Like
Paul @ PPCH Services said:Whilst getting payed what some might term plumbers rates for a boring afternoon in the sun weeding borders my mind was wondering.
What have, plumbers, window cleaners, electricians, and a proportion of site members including myself got in common aside from making a decent living without seemingly resenting others?
We all charge by the job not by the hour!
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Permalink Reply by briggsandscrapem on -
Are the whingers new starters with under 2 years experience or time served gardeners having worked for themselves or other contractors for long enough to know the score ?
Or maybe geographical location has a lot to do with it. Can't imagine gardeners in Barrow in Furness earning the same as gardeners in Leamington Spa.
Gary RK said:+1 Like
Paul @ PPCH Services said:Whilst getting payed what some might term plumbers rates for a boring afternoon in the sun weeding borders my mind was wondering.
What have, plumbers, window cleaners, electricians, and a proportion of site members including myself got in common aside from making a decent living without seemingly resenting others?
We all charge by the job not by the hour!
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Nick @ NM Garden Services Ltd on -
Well said Paul :)
Gary RK said:+1 Like
Paul @ PPCH Services said:Whilst getting payed what some might term plumbers rates for a boring afternoon in the sun weeding borders my mind was wondering.
What have, plumbers, window cleaners, electricians, and a proportion of site members including myself got in common aside from making a decent living without seemingly resenting others?
We all charge by the job not by the hour!
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