Open Association of Landscape Industries
Planning Permission and Removal of Permitted Development Rights
I have just been commissioned to design the back garden of a house on a new development. An Oak tree on the neighbouring plot has a TPO and as a consequence the Class E and F Permitted Development Rights have been removed. This means that my client will need Planning Permission to do just about anything in the garden (structures, features, paving – although they can install walls/fences/retaining walls as these come under a different part of the Act). I was on site today doing the survey, noticed building work going on two doors down so stuck my head in to the garden to have a nose around and a quick chat with the lads. They were building raised beds and laying paving well within the root protection area of the tree, didn’t think they had planning permission, and where intending to keep their heads down.
So, my question is, ‘Who is responsible for ensuring that the required permissions (if any) are obtained?’
If someone shops them (and it won’t be me), the owner is clearly at fault, but could they argue that the landscapers should have asked/checked before they started the work?
As an aside, the neighbour on the other side came out for a chat and mentioned that several other people in the street had already had their gardens ‘done’, and I was the first person to mention Planning Permission, so presumably most people are ignoring the rules and hoping they don't get caught.
Replies to This Discussion
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Gary RK on -
Hi,
I've recently used this portal :
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/
and this page :
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/wps/portal/pp/pp.home/search2/!ut/...
for personal reasons and found it really useful to unravel all the laws and old wives tale.
Hope it may help
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Permalink Reply by Richard Thornton on -
The client! It's their property and so their responcibility to obtain all permissions, consents etc. I ask about TPO's etc and now get them to sign my T&C to the effect that they will inform me of any restrictions which may affect my work.
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Permalink Reply by 2rz8kijomf4bv on -
Dont touch anything that might fall foul of the TPO.
I wouldnt get involved with the other job tbh. The first port of call for them should have been the council that issued the TPO.
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Permalink Reply by Sue Bell on -
Gary - I am a frequent user of the Planning Portal . Another job is in a Conservation Area, Special Area of Conservation and a SSSI so, again, permission is required just to breathe on site!
Richard - Thanks. I thought that was the case, and I always cover myself with a statement in my proposal/T&Cs.
Edward - I have no intention of getting involved with the neighbour's build. I was actually interested in what the planners thought of their raised beds, whether they had any difficulty with the process, whether they had to amend anything to get permission... In the event they were no use to me atall :-), but it did make me wonder who would be responsible if their build was reported.
In this case it's worse than just a TPO. A TPO would enable us to do work without permission as long as we don't touch the tree. In this case, as part of the original planning consent for the development the usual rights were removed, so we have to apply for planning permission to install paving or erect a pergola, say, even if it's no-where near the tree. I am SO glad I asked the question when I took the brief!
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Permalink Reply by Rose Lennard on -
One bit of silver lining - if because PD rights have been removed, you have to apply for PP for work that would normally not need it, you don't have to pay for the application.
Thinking about the quandry of seeing work being done which could affect a TPO tree, I think sometimes 'shopping' the contractor is the right thing to do. TPOs are there to protect irreplaceable trees which are important for public amenity and the landscape. Sometimes they can take a long time to die after root damage; I've seen a contractor excavating too close to a line of yew trees which only started looking seriously unhealthy about 5 or 6 years later, by which time the contractor is long gone, thinking 'what was all the fuss about?!'. So if there are contractors out there working in ways which will cause long term damage to important trees, they need to be stopped, and they need to be made to understand why they shouldn't do what they are doing. Often people simply don't understand that certain work is going to damage a tree. But I agree that it's not easy to be the one who 'shops' anyone...
Sue Bell said:Gary - I am a frequent user of the Planning Portal . Another job is in a Conservation Area, Special Area of Conservation and a SSSI so, again, permission is required just to breathe on site!
Richard - Thanks. I thought that was the case, and I always cover myself with a statement in my proposal/T&Cs.
Edward - I have no intention of getting involved with the neighbour's build. I was actually interested in what the planners thought of their raised beds, whether they had any difficulty with the process, whether they had to amend anything to get permission... In the event they were no use to me atall :-), but it did make me wonder who would be responsible if their build was reported.
In this case it's worse than just a TPO. A TPO would enable us to do work without permission as long as we don't touch the tree. In this case, as part of the original planning consent for the development the usual rights were removed, so we have to apply for planning permission to install paving or erect a pergola, say, even if it's no-where near the tree. I am SO glad I asked the question when I took the brief!
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Permalink Reply by Sue Bell on
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Thanks Rose, I didn't know about the free applications.
Whether to 'shop' or not is an issue. I am the volunteer tree warden for my Parish, and have 'tattled' in the past when any comeback would be to me personally. Here though it is likely to be my client who suffers so I am loathe to wade-in. It's a new house and I don't want to sour neighbourly relations before they're even started.
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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Austin Powell-Allen on -
the problem will come when they sell the house on and the new solicitors get involved with the house transfer and realise the problem with planning
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Permalink Reply by Rose Lennard on
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really tricky and I don't envy your dilemma! Worth remembering that even when a tree is TPO'd, it may still be possible to use no-dig contruction methods around it, to avoid damage to roots. I'd forgotten about tree wardens, I used to work for a council and we did some training for the TWs and they were a good bunch!
Sue Bell said:Thanks Rose, I didn't know about the free applications.
Whether to 'shop' or not is an issue. I am the volunteer tree warden for my Parish, and have 'tattled' in the past when any comeback would be to me personally. Here though it is likely to be my client who suffers so I am loathe to wade-in. It's a new house and I don't want to sour neighbourly relations before they're even started.
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Permalink Reply by Sue Bell on
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You're right Austin, and casually mentioning the resale problem to the owner might be the way to go.
I've now drawn up the survey and the root protection area covers a good part of the garden! We may have to use no-dig methods close to the tree (thanks Rose), but further away we may be OK - I dug a drainage test pit (600mm deep) and didn't find any roots. Of course we're not just concerned about avoiding direct root damage, we also have to maintain existing ground levels and allow the tree sufficient moisture, so there will be limits on where we can terrace this sloping garden and where we can pave (assuming the material/construction isn't porous). All good fun!
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Permalink Reply by Anna Cohen on -
So, my question is, ‘Who is responsible for ensuring that the required permissions (if any) are obtained?’
If someone shops them (and it won’t be me), the owner is clearly at fault, but could they argue that the landscapers should have asked/checked before they started the work?
YES
I used to work alongside a Council Tree Officer - who would seek to to prosecute both the landowner and also contractor.
It will only be a matter of time before the tree officer will be passing by and will have a nosey at the houses, as it will have been them who got the planning condition of having development rights removed from the back gardens.
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Permalink Reply by N. F. Trees & Gardens on -
If work is being carried out within the root protection area without permission then the TPO is being breached, and the owner of garden and contractors face prosecution. End of.
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Permalink Reply by Sue Bell on
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It's interesting that the TPO prevents work within the RPA. None of the Council's guidance on TPOs even mentions the RPA. In fact they don't mention the roots atall, so how would the garden owner know?
On this site there are the extra planning restrictions, but these still allow walls (and their foundations) without the need for planning permission, so the garden owner (and affected neighbours) might now realise. Lets face it, even digging planting holes could damage the tree roots and you can't prevent people planting their gardens (or can you?).
N. F. Trees & Gardens said:If work is being carried out within the root protection area without permission then the TPO is being breached, and the owner of garden and contractors face prosecution. End of.
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