Good Companies cost money to run as they invest in correct image, marketing,insurance, training,staff, tools etc. The most disappointing aspect of landscape construction is the ability of the unskilled/unqualified individual/firm to under price the market rate, looking for and achieving a quick buck. I had hoped by now that a government would have addressed the uneven business playing field. In my opinion, it should be no trade body membership or Company registration - no trading. The onus on the customer to make sure they are employing suitable firms or they are breaking the law. What would this cost to set up, not alot & everyones a winner except the rogues. A stipuation would be joining the register, and a qualifying point could be that each firm takes on a young apprentice each year, or is able to keep the same one for a maximum of 3 years until they gain experience. This would help young people enter the market & would be a vote winner amongst the young.
I can prove how uneven the playing field is. I used to be a member of a national paving scheme, infact one of the founding members. I gave it up 3 years ago as the credibility I was looking for by being a member was not there any more in my opinion. They recently recognised the way the scheme had become less professional & decided to make it a qualifying criteria that you had to be VAT registered to be a member. The result in my county - everyone was removed from the scheme. I do not believe you can be an established business and not be VAT registered, the turnover is too small.Think of all those "firms" that have been competing against you, taking work off you on the basis that they are automatically 20% cheaper. It angers me that you are penalised by the system while trying to do the right thing. Its about time governments protected the consumer & businesses by putting correct legislation in place. Anything these forum sites can do to assist this is a good thing in my book.
Duncan Ross www.gardendesignco.com twitter gardendesigncom
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Replies
Whilst i understand your frustrations i think you are too quick to assume anyone not VAT registered is somehow unprofessional and a rogue.
I find your use of 'firms' derogatory and am happy to say that i am one of them. Due to my personal circumstances i am very risk averse and almost exclusively work on my own. I provide quality landscaping work and my turnover will be under the threshold again next year. VAT registration and professionalism are not mutually exclusive.
I should say that I agree there is a case for abolishing the threshold and make all companies carrying out landscaping to be registered as comparing a quote from a small business just under the threshold and a larger one just over it seems unfair but that is a seperate issue which if you were to address only that in your post i would not have commented.
This topic comes up time and time again. The resultant posts often being a mixture of the same: you cannot say that because someone is not VAT reg'd that they are unprofessional. Neither is being part of a trade organisation a prerequisite to good workmanship.
I am a VAT reg'd business but not so long ago wasn't - that doesn't mean that my work was lower standard - that's just a ridiculous idea.
Concentrate on doing what you do well. There will always be scumbags/cowboys operating, but there will also be those that simply have lower overheads than you, therefore can afford to price lower. On the flipside, however, you are able to take on bigger jobs, turn-over jobs quicker, and whatever else you are known for doing well - this is what people will ultimately employ YOU for.
Why be so concerned about what others are getting up to? If they are bad traders they wont last long anyway.
I am maintenance not a landscaper, and my turnover is no way near the VAT threshold, But i AM an established business, I am comletely legit with Insurance, certs, waste carriage licence, etc, So despite not being VAT registered I am doing the "right thing" as you put it. I don't appreciate those comments Duncan and i think you'll find a lot of people on here won't either.
I do see your point about a register of some sort and the apprentice idea which would be a great way of getting young people off their arses.
I am hoping i've misinterpreted your post but having read it several times i don't think i have.
We were VAT registered 6 months ago, now we're not. I don't think we went from being reputable to being cowboys overnight.
A Quote from BALI 2011 Awards:
"Although of a very high standard, all shortlisted entries in this category were judged to fall short of the exacting benchmark of all round excellence demanded by winners of a BALI Award. The judging panel unanimously agreed that, to ensure a BALI Award remains the highest accolade achievable by those working in the landscape industry, this category would stand without any contractor receiving an award in 2011"
So, being a member of one of the main associations is not a guarantee adhering to 'exacting benchmark' or good enough work to gain an award from their own associations.
I get so fed up of this VAT, Dodgy trader, Association Membership merry go round that seems to crop up and undermine the the 1000's of perfectly good contractors out there, VAT registered, Association members or not......
If anyone wants to be VAT registered or belong to an Association that is 100% fine, just don't kick fellow contractors who choose not to go that route
I'm not VAT registered, and echo the comments above. I understand that a business with large materials costs and many staff can't run below the VAT threshold without questions being asked, but turnover is no guide to quality or profitability. Don't tar us sole-traders with the same brush.
Registration might seem like a good idea. In fact it would only add costs to businesses like mine, whilst the dodgy companies would ignore it or fake it. Waste transfer licenses are a perfect example of how legitimate businesses pay whilst the "cowboys" carry on as before. Usually with a sign on their van saying "all waste recycled", when they mean "left in a lay-by after dark".
Any business that has 2 or more employees should be VAT registered in regards to turnover otherwise they arnt charging enough.
We are and we find it tough to compete agaisnt people who are not VAT reg. There are lots of single handed gardeners who arnt and who are very good, but there is loads of companies / traders who arnt and do cash in hand and / or undercharge and do the industry no favours.
Good point, took us 3 years but when we did we lost half my work due to the price rise.
Paul @ PPCH Services said:
Absolutely right. VAT registered or otherwise has got nothing to do with quality of work.
Paul @ PPCH Services said:
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