Replies to This Discussion

PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Pip Howard on May 25, 2012 at 13:33

If we are to include all determining factors, (topography, elevation, geology, management regime and occurence, etc) it makes a 'snapshot' study non viable. A quick but standardised biodiversity count allows for a wider picture to develop - which in turn encourages further study, when we can either get paid by clients to look into the broader picture or in some locations allowing research to hone on anomalies which will help in determining real problems rather than a comprehensive study in  just a single location, of little worth to anyone and capable of seeing an abuse of the results to suit one person or one company.  Trying to merely match theory with location is little more than reinventing the wheel and if proffered will discourage possible funding. No one can afford to carry out comprehensive soil tests for free but giving an extra reason to the client to do so is invaluable to all. 
Kevin Barnett said:

David said to include the subsoil, you've just lifted a section of turf with the top soil.
You need to test the soil for its texture and structure, it's pH what is the soil temperature ( worms are active within a particular temperature range and soil pH. ) it is not good enough to make observations as to worm activity within such a narrow soil section without the additional information required to make informed observations.
What defines a synthetic fertiliser.
What other assessments of lawn / grass treatments are being made, other than the application of 'chemicals' have the areas been regu
Regularly scarifier, aerated etc.

Kevin
Www.gardencoaching.blogspot.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 25, 2012 at 19:06

 Another cross section, from a treated lawn. 

   There is a small amount of decaying organic matter, but this is not being incorperated into

the top few inches. It is from the garden of a block of residential flats and the lawn area

is hardly used.  

I will try to take a few photo's of lawns that have not been treated next week.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 25, 2012 at 20:04

The two cross sections have so far shown me just how poor the

soil is, and how compacted it has become. I have not had time to carry

out the organic matter test, but it is fairly obvious from just looking at

the soil and touching it, that it is not great.

  Both lawns were made about twenty years ago, and soil was brought in,

 so it could be that the soil quality has always been poor. It would be nice to

 compare a similar soil situation where the grass has been mulched/recycled

for twenty years and chemicals not used.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin Barnett on May 26, 2012 at 8:11

John
Here are two simple tests to analyse the soils texture and structure.
1. Get a jam jar large one if poss. Take a sample of the soil about 2 to 4 inches down and fill the jam jar just below 1/2 full. Fill the rest with water. Put top on and shake vigorously. Place jam jar on a windowsill and leave tll everything has settled. Could take a week or so.
When all clear you should see defineable differences in the colours and levels of the soil in the jar.
The bottom level will be sand as that is the heaviest
Moving up silt, top clay and maybe organic material on the top.
Measure the height of all levels
Break down into percentages all the different layers
Google ' soil texture triangle'
from what you find you will find you will be able to read across from each edge of the triangle drawing a line and it will define for you what the soil is. Eg. Sand, silty loam, clay loam, silty clay loam etc etc.
That gives you the structure of the soil.

Test 2.
Dry the soil as you are doing but from the same level down.
Sieve it to remove large stones etc ideally anything above 2mm. Place some in the palm of your hand. Add some water only a little at a time. Test how it feels, gritty ?, smooth, a little gritty yet smooth ? The more gritty feel the more sand, the smoother then more clay,
Google soil texture test , you should find a pathway to do the test and be able to read what you are feeling.
Any problems and I'll email you a copy or post it here.

You do need to asceertain the pH though. The more free draining the more likelihood of a neutral to acid reading though as nutrients are leached away quicker.

Kevin
www.garden coaching.blogspot.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 26, 2012 at 9:00

Thanks Kevin,

 Yes I will try one of these soil structure tests.

 With regards to the PH test,

 I realise that you feel this is important, but the causes

of acidity are extremely varied, heavy rainfall, fertiliser use,

weathering of existing minerals, organic matter, plant growth,

 etc.  But I will test a couple of chemically treated gardens

  and the same for chemically free ones, but as I have said,

deducing the reasons is not always easy and would be prone to

a fair bit of speculation on my part, although it will be interesting

to see the results.

Kevin Barnett said:

John
Here are two simple tests to analyse the soils texture and structure.
1. Get a jam jar large one if poss. Take a sample of the soil about 2 to 4 inches down and fill the jam jar just below 1/2 full. Fill the rest with water. Put top on and shake vigorously. Place jam jar on a windowsill and leave tll everything has settled. Could take a week or so.
When all clear you should see defineable differences in the colours and levels of the soil in the jar.
The bottom level will be sand as that is the heaviest
Moving up silt, top clay and maybe organic material on the top.
Measure the height of all levels
Break down into percentages all the different layers
Google ' soil texture triangle'
from what you find you will find you will be able to read across from each edge of the triangle drawing a line and it will define for you what the soil is. Eg. Sand, silty loam, clay loam, silty clay loam etc etc.
That gives you the structure of the soil.

Test 2.
Dry the soil as you are doing but from the same level down.
Sieve it to remove large stones etc ideally anything above 2mm. Place some in the palm of your hand. Add some water only a little at a time. Test how it feels, gritty ?, smooth, a little gritty yet smooth ? The more gritty feel the more sand, the smoother then more clay,
Google soil texture test , you should find a pathway to do the test and be able to read what you are feeling.
Any problems and I'll email you a copy or post it here.

You do need to asceertain the pH though. The more free draining the more likelihood of a neutral to acid reading though as nutrients are leached away quicker.

Kevin
www.garden coaching.blogspot.com

• ▶ Reply

PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Pip Howard on May 27, 2012 at 11:16

A Practical guide to digging a hole and quick evaluation of topsoil:

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/EA-think-soils_tcm6-28196.pdf

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rose Lennard on May 28, 2012 at 9:57

Thanks Pip, this looks like a really useful link.
 
Pip Howard said:

A Practical guide to digging a hole and quick evaluation of topsoil:

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/EA-think-soils_tcm6-28196.pdf

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 29, 2012 at 19:37

Thanks for the link PIP

 http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/EA-think-soils_tcm6-28196.pdf

I am still trying to find the bit about Devon red bricks.

Tomorrow I will photograph a couple of chemical free lawns.

John www.acegardenservices.co.uk said:

 Another cross section, from a treated lawn. 

   There is a small amount of decaying organic matter, but this is not being incorperated into

the top few inches. It is from the garden of a block of residential flats and the lawn area

is hardly used.  

I will try to take a few photo's of lawns that have not been treated next week.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 30, 2012 at 20:33

This is from a garden which has had no chemical or physical

treatment for the last eight years. 

   The photograph that didn't come out was taken from a better angle, and showed the depth

of the soft soil /roots/decayed thatch, which drops down about 4 cm from the visable thatch

layer. This section of the turf will probably be full of insects and will be checked on another day

when we have more free time.

This is the bottom with a small worm sticking out.

And the lawn after a cut today.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin Barnett on May 31, 2012 at 19:09

Pip can you summarise your last comments as I'm a little confused as to your point.
My point is that.
To make comparisons between one site and another you need to make an informed comparison.
When John say's its a poor soil, by what measure is it poor, and how is the soils health judged, no pH test no structure test, no texture test, although the observation of it being compacted is made which in itself is very important as it affects water, air absorbtion, the ability for worm activity who by the way are active with favourable pH levels, so no pH test therefore no judgement on worm activity other than visual, which is poor if all other elements are not measured.
The soil tests I advised are quick and less time consuming than a whole sol profile.

Kevin
www.gardencoaching.blogspot.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John on May 31, 2012 at 20:58

  Although the unknown factor is the condition of the

soil intially, certain things can be seen regardless of this

information. It could be said that if grass is growing in

good soil, and the grass is mulched and no chemicals are used

then the soil condition will probably improve, the grass will be able

to withstand droughts and will recover very quickly. Also the thatch layer

will be incoperated into the top 4 cm of top soil.

The two lawns where chemicals are used show very little thatch decomposition

and integration into the top layer of soil, this may be due to a number of reasons,

including the use of chemicals, but nothing definite can be deduced yet. 

I am hoping to test a garden next week which has parts that are chemical free

and others that have been treated for about ten years.           

• ▶ Reply

PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Pip Howard on May 31, 2012 at 23:01

Sorry it was somewhat ambigiuous (or badly written). The NE pdf was to help show a process when having to make several decisions quickly for several locations. In essence what John is trying to achieve and which could be useful for others is a half way house between a simple 'smell' test and a complete soil analysis - a lot of schoolboy science (which I'm not dissing at all) could be very useful. I was a little bit worried that too much data could be sought which in practical terms needed to be costed for... However the texture tests you state are hardly in this category and it does look like its heading towards an approach which even homeowners could carry out. 

Kevin Barnett said:

Pip can you summarise your last comments as I'm a little confused as to your point.
My point is that.
To make comparisons between one site and another you need to make an informed comparison.
When John say's its a poor soil, by what measure is it poor, and how is the soils health judged, no pH test no structure test, no texture test, although the observation of it being compacted is made which in itself is very important as it affects water, air absorbtion, the ability for worm activity who by the way are active with favourable pH levels, so no pH test therefore no judgement on worm activity other than visual, which is poor if all other elements are not measured.
The soil tests I advised are quick and less time consuming than a whole sol profile.

Kevin
www.gardencoaching.blogspot.com

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• …
• 10
• Next ›
• Page