Dear all
I have posted this question under the BKO group but too date have only had 4 responses.
I have therefore posted here as general thread.
I am looking for comments particularly from those of you who fall into either a Landscape build or Design discipline, and of course design and build as well.
If anyone wants to participate who works outside of these areas you are also very welcome to contribute but i would like some indication as to what your area of work is.
SO THE QUESTION IS ?
'Is the cost of engaging a Garden Designer an overhead that can be avoided by the landscaper due to their own knowledge and understanding of the practical elements of building a garden ?'
Many Thanks
Kevin
Views: 74
Replies
No I don't think it's a 'no brainer' tony but thank you for your response.
I was interested in reading a very long thread titled 'unprofessional landscapers' which had some 900 page views and a lot of correspondence posted. I have posted this same question on other forums and there is some quite interesting points raised there.
Each side landscape contractor and designer could work closer together, everyone wins. The client through good cohesive design, reputation to both landscaper and designer and potentially more profitable businesses.
If I were to quote Richard McKenna of Provender Nursery (ex Wyevale East) BALI plant sourcing seminar 2012.
'The designer provides the imagination, the landscaper makes it happen' ?
I think many clients would not even consider using a designer unless there project was 5K plus, in the mis-guided belief that designers aren't interested in smaller budgets. In reality many smaller scheme would be viable and i dare say improve by some cohesive thinking and a few hundred quid for a basic design is probably worthwhile.
Personally i find that any of the larger jobs i quote on 5K-8K people are wanting more done rather than more quality. By that i mean I find normal clients are insistant on a larger area of basic paving after which they may end up with 30 sq/m of budget type flags when a smaller 18m patio is plenty for them and could be much higher quality in materials and perhaps a more interesting shape etc.
The mis-conception being the bigger the area they get paved the more value it has. In this scenario people are more likely to follow the guidance of a garden designer over the contractor.
I do think your title is a little incendiary though. Perhaps a question mark would help??
and an extra n would not go amiss if you are changing it!
Simon Smith said:
That was totally unecessary john!
I used to do a lot of work for a customer of mine involved in the radio and telecommunications industry, towards the end, installing mobile phone network arials and towers. I would look at the drawings, work out the steelwork requirements, price up the fabrication and advise him on weights and lengths for cranage etc. He had a stock phrase, "Phil we have got to have a plan, so we have got something to amend." He has now retired and with him his business.
I think whether or not you have a garden designer or not you need that plan.
I work with a number of garden designers, those that don't want the stock items, usually have an idea of what they want making, very few ideas are totally workable as presented, they have as Brian used to say "be amended". A garden designer will give you that plan that can be amended, if the budget will stand it, it probably isn't a bad idea. When you design things yourself, then build them, it is often only when you are actually building them, when you see where the ammendments were needed.
Hi Kevin
I think the answer to your question is yes in many circumstances.
As well as designing gardens myself I used to employ and/or retain a garden designer in-house but there were many construction projects we carried out without the need for an overall design.
There will always be some clients whereby there would always be an instant level of understanding. As an installer one would, based on experience, also instantly be aware of what use can be made of a space in a potential client's garden.
Here's a typical conversation:
Client: 'Phil, we are looking for a decent sized patio to sit on this summer...do you think you can do it before the end of spring?'
Phil: 'OK, do you mean to fit this entire space or something surrounded by plants etc?...yes, fitting you in before the end of spring wouldn't be a problem provided we can agree on a specification and a price within the next 2-3 weeks.'
[Do not ask your client what budget they have at this point as you need to test them and their ideas first to see if they are genuine. At this stage one then needs to describe the potential based on evolving client expectations]
Client: 'No, just a patio for now, we can think about borders at a later date. We just need somewhere to sit and also to stop this area getting mucky when it rains.'
Phil: 'OK, well I see there's a natural shape here already. We obviously need to connect the back door, the side alleyway. The levels are good and I see no reason for steps anywhere.
'There are also two existing desire lines leading away from the proposed patio which lead to the lawn and to the shed; I'd like to block off the shed route as this is a utility area but retain the line to the lawn as it already has a natural flow. The route to the shed can be disconnected by means of a rigid border structure or some planting at a later date....call it phase two.'
I'd be using words and at the same time helping to visualise what I'm describing at this point.
Client: 'That sounds good. How much would it cost?
Phil: 'Well there are many variables. The base costs would be pretty much the same whatever surface you opt for. There are many materials available. For example, at the lower end of the scale we can just create a brick edging on concrete footing, in-filled with compressed scalpings and topped with 20mm gravel. It's soft to the eye, non-slip and most of all low cost.
'At the upper end we can use a natural stone flag with high quality stock brick edging. It's more labour intensive and would probably quadruple the price.
'There are a multitude of materials and methods in between...and of course it depends on the final area of laid material.
[At this point I'd show them a portfolio of completed projects as well as brochures with the materials available. After this it's all about managing client expectations]
Up until this point you have spoken about what you can do for the client. It's all about improving their space and lives so, with the client's trust gained, the all important question can be asked:
Phil: 'What budget do you have?'
The process is starting to evolve into a cohesive plan (albeit imaginary to some extend). I try to think of the process as one big funnel. Imagine pouring ideas, client expectations, budget, time-scale, access and ground conditions into one big imaginary funnel with the mixed and refined solution pouring from the end.
At this point I'd go away and write a specification and brief based on my notes taken whilst talking with the client. Sometimes I'd draw up a working sketch but not a full drawing.
What I described above happened very frequently and by not going down an unnecessary design route I'd saved the client money which could either reduce the cost of the project or allow more of the budget to go into the construction.
I agree wth Tony that 'There are varying degrees of talents within the industry, some landscapers do their own designs, some work with designers, some don't work to a plan/design at all (not advised but it does happen)'. Phil's reply above spells out beautifully how it can work when the garden and brief are not complex and the client isn't looking for anything too 'cutting edge', and the priorities for the budget are more about functionality than high design. Not everyone wants to pay the extra to get an architect involved in a home extension, but you can really see the added value when an architect has had the opportunity to contribute, and it's the same for gardens. I'd like to think that anyone looking at my portfolio could see the value of having a designer on board, and I don't believe any of my designs could have come about without detailed plans, which do of course take time and cost money. There will always be clients who believe it's worth the expense, and those who would rather spend their money elsewhere, so hopefully there's room for everyone. I have quite often advised prospective clients that they might be better speaking to someone who does 'design and build' as there isn't sufficient money in the budget for separate designer's fees.
www.chameleongardens.co.uk
I guess there's one other question (it's been asked many times before but well worth repeating).
Are there just too many garden designers vying for work?
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
of 4 Next