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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Rowly Hill on July 14, 2010 at 18:12

Hi Richard. I like the sound of this product but one practical question. That is how did you deal with or are there any issues with the "free" edges. If the compound is applied as a slurry and therefore able to run did you need to board the free edges to prevent slump and reduced finished pointing levels at the edge?

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Permalink Reply by RICHARD BICKLER on July 14, 2010 at 18:49

we used a strip of flexible polycarbonate to ensure the edges did'nt spill, however yet to try it on risers and steps i am sure some heavy duty duck tape may work??? photo from today looks great and client really happy, so much so I got hug and thank you before they went away!!!!!!!!!! priceless

ROWLY HILL said:

Hi Richard. I like the sound of this product but one practical question. That is how did you deal with or are there any issues with the "free" edges. If the compound is applied as a slurry and therefore able to run did you need to board the free edges to prevent slump and reduced finished pointing levels at the edge?

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on July 14, 2010 at 18:49

Stuart

I've never used this material - good old sand and cement in my day ;-) How does the jointing mix (slurry?) hold up on the vertical joints for the steps?

I can see your joints are fairly fine 3-5m?? What reaction do you get; does it slump or hold as I would imagine the paving here is pretty non-absorbent.

Edit:should have read the above comment:)

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Permalink Reply by RICHARD BICKLER on July 14, 2010 at 18:53

ncc £ 60 per 25kg pallett discount, the more you buy the cheaper it is, plus some delivery costs...I prefer to wet lay all our slabs, never had a lifter in over 15 years of wet laying, overnight the mortar sets as walking on the slabs isnt an option thus pointing couldnt happen...

Gary Cobb said:

Dave, I'm interested to learn why you and others consider the pointing to be such a costly item in the first place.

Every one has their own methods and that's fine by me but personally we would normally lay 25 - 30 square metres of random slab paving or Indian sandstone in one day including pointing as we go with 3 men.

Obviously this amount would be reduced if there were a lot of cuts, recessed manholes, bad access, etc. but even so on an awkward job I would say we would comfortably lay 20 square metres at least.

Do you lay a lot more than this and leave all the pointing untill another day ?

With regard to the economics, ( and I may be wrong here ) but I read them as follows:-

25kg of NCC 800 = £90.33. At 2kg / sq.metre that is £7.20 / sq. metre.

If we laid 25 square metres of paving in a day that would cost us £180 + labour just to point it ??? How does that add up ?

Finally, I am not against these products in any way I'm just interested to know how you guys justify the cost.

Dave Sewell said: Overall we reduced the cost of pointing by about 25% on the trial project which is a good result.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on July 14, 2010 at 18:56

It would be good to have a direct price comparison: conventional pointing against NCC Streetscape as Garry suggests.

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Permalink Reply by RICHARD BICKLER on July 14, 2010 at 19:08

Hi Gary,

Sharp sand and cement mix to the consistencey of bricklaying mortar full bed, pva slurry the back of the slabs for extra suction, could walk on the slabs after 4-5 hours just personal preference as I like to keep off them over night point the following day, with the inconsistent british weather you've got to be a 100% sure that it won't rain... for cement pointing, too dry and the stuff shrinks too quick!!

Gary Cobb said:

What do you mean wet lay ?

We use mixed sand, ( 25% sharp / 75 % building ) and cement mixed to a mix a bit drier than that used for bricklaying but we always manage to get on the slabs within an hour or maybe 2 max in the winter.

Do you have your mix like slurry ? I'm not being facetious here I'm just interested to know why you can't walk on them the same day.

Again, like you been laying 15 years and honestly, I don't think we've ever had a rocker !



RICHARD BICKLER said:

ncc £ 60 per 25kg pallett discount, the more you buy the cheaper it is, plus some delivery costs...I prefer to wet lay all our slabs, never had a lifter in over 15 years of wet laying, overnight the mortar sets as walking on the slabs isnt an option thus pointing couldnt happen...

Gary Cobb said:

Dave, I'm interested to learn why you and others consider the pointing to be such a costly item in the first place.

Every one has their own methods and that's fine by me but personally we would normally lay 25 - 30 square metres of random slab paving or Indian sandstone in one day including pointing as we go with 3 men.

Obviously this amount would be reduced if there were a lot of cuts, recessed manholes, bad access, etc. but even so on an awkward job I would say we would comfortably lay 20 square metres at least.

Do you lay a lot more than this and leave all the pointing untill another day ?

With regard to the economics, ( and I may be wrong here ) but I read them as follows:-

25kg of NCC 800 = £90.33. At 2kg / sq.metre that is £7.20 / sq. metre.

If we laid 25 square metres of paving in a day that would cost us £180 + labour just to point it ??? How does that add up ?

Finally, I am not against these products in any way I'm just interested to know how you guys justify the cost.

Dave Sewell said: Overall we reduced the cost of pointing by about 25% on the trial project which is a good result.

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Ovens on July 27, 2010 at 9:57

Hi Philip - I think that you may be getting confused as NCC Streetscape Ltd has absolutely nothing to do with Instarmac.
NCC Streetscape are the exclusive UK and ROI Distributors and Technical Service Partners for the full range of vdw Paving Mortars from the market and technology leaders, GftK based near Cologne in Germany.
The website and contact details are at www.nccstreetscape.co.uk and 01257 266696 Speak to David or Gary as mentioned in the other posts for any advice or assistance with any type of paving jointing and grouting.

Philip Voice said:

It's great to see so much positive feedback. As Instarmac kindly advertised on LJN, it's nice to see them getting positive reviews.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on July 27, 2010 at 10:03

I do apologise Adrian...I was obviously confused :)

Apologies to NCC Streetscape and Instarmac too and anyone else I thought I'd lost the plot.

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Permalink Reply by Andy Thorne on July 27, 2010 at 20:16

We are trying it out next week for the first time. VDW850 though. The price difference is negligible and this product can be used in puring rain :) as well as being jet wash proof.
I am very interested to see how it performs. Sounds fantastic - we shall see.....

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Permalink Reply by david Mackay on August 23, 2011 at 20:30

Hi  Andy

 

It certainly seems a long time ago now when you tried the vdw850 but I have not caught up with the debate for a long time!!  Anyway,  its had a year to perform so how did it go and how does it look now, 1 year and one hard winter later?

 

 

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