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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Austin Powell-Allen on February 23, 2012 at 22:35

I am not to interested in Electric vans as they are more expensive and if everyone switched to electric there would surely be an overload on the national grid if we all charged them together, there by meaning the gas, coal power stations would have to burn more fuels creating more pollution and hey presto we are back where we started! with emissions now. Also interested to see if you run out of power on a country lane how the breakdown would work.

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Permalink Reply by David Benson on February 23, 2012 at 23:52

at the moment i Carnot see a electric van pulling a 3.5 ton trailer past the end of the street never mind tipping the contents out at the tip (if you get there) main agents for servicing (£150 per hour plus vat) plus these electric cars are dangerous a customer of mine has one of these hybrids and she Nealy reversed over me as i did not hear it coming

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Permalink Reply by Tim Haywood on February 24, 2012 at 7:01

or renewables

Richard Matthews said:

electric is all well and good...but our electric comes form nuclear and coal fired power stations....

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Permalink Reply by Tim Haywood on February 24, 2012 at 7:11

An electric motor is vastly more efficient than a diesel engine. Only about 30% of the energy in the diesel is actually used to move the vehicle, the rest is wasted. Yes, the electricity has to be generated of course but a power station does it with a lot more efficiency than a diesel engine.

Consider a diesel train. Does it run on diesel? No, not directly. The diesel runs a generator that creates electricity to drive electric motors on the wheels. Why? Because an electric motor has a much better torque range than a diesel engine and the process is much more efficient.

I'm not suggesting that electric cars are the answer, I believe that we'll be forced into a much much darker future unless we as a society stop blowing smoke up our backsides and actually work on some solutions. I do however want solutions based on facts and throwaway comments by all sides do not help.

Austin Powell-Allen said:

meaning the gas, coal power stations would have to burn more fuels creating more pollution and hey presto we are back where we started! with emissions now.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Paul McNulty on February 24, 2012 at 8:25

I couldn't agree more. My issue is the current technology being promoted as somehow the "perfect" solution, when in fact it's arguably worse. We see hydrid vehicles with cute environmental graphics and advertising, yet they are heavy, hugely expensive even with my taxes subsidising them, and fail to achieve anything like the MPG figures they claim. Let alone the future costs in replacing the batteries, both financial and environmental. We forget that the materials for the batteries often come from parts of the world where the environment, and the workers, are exploited.

Electric-only is a non-starter except in small urban cars; we will never overcome the range issues or the expense for larger vehicles. I do think it's relevant to include the cost of power-stations, even if they are cleaner than diesel. All the electricity has to come from somewhere, so the only clean way is to use less. Renewables aren't going to provide what we consume today without covering the country in windfarms, let alone the massive increase if we convert our transport to electric.

The way forward has to be twofold. We reduce the weight of vehicles, and we cut the mileage down. More home-working, better transport for schoolkids, more local food production rather than fleets of lorries moving potatoes up and down the country, that sort of thing.

Tim Haywood said:

An electric motor is vastly more efficient than a diesel engine. Only about 30% of the energy in the diesel is actually used to move the vehicle, the rest is wasted. Yes, the electricity has to be generated of course but a power station does it with a lot more efficiency than a diesel engine.

Consider a diesel train. Does it run on diesel? No, not directly. The diesel runs a generator that creates electricity to drive electric motors on the wheels. Why? Because an electric motor has a much better torque range than a diesel engine and the process is much more efficient.

I'm not suggesting that electric cars are the answer, I believe that we'll be forced into a much much darker future unless we as a society stop blowing smoke up our backsides and actually work on some solutions. I do however want solutions based on facts and throwaway comments by all sides do not help.

Austin Powell-Allen said:

meaning the gas, coal power stations would have to burn more fuels creating more pollution and hey presto we are back where we started! with emissions now.

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Permalink Reply by Fenlandphil on February 24, 2012 at 19:50

I found an article about the engine I mentioned Dearman engine

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Permalink Reply by Tim Haywood on February 25, 2012 at 8:13

Utter tosh. What about the energy required to supercool the air in the first place?

Fenlandphil said:

I found an article about the engine I mentioned Dearman engine

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Permalink Reply by Tim Haywood on February 25, 2012 at 8:43

For a read on how renewables can supply the UK energy mix (transport included) check out the excellent 'Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air' by David MacKay who has advised our governments on energy policy.

Available free online here: http://withouthotair.com/ packed with clear numbers and facts.

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Permalink Reply by Fenlandphil on February 25, 2012 at 15:07

When I used to test engines, a job I did for fifteen years, Ricardo were acknowledged to be one of the top engine research establishments. Their opinion seems to be that the technology is viable and the technical problems solvable or solved. It maybe utter tosh but if Ricardo think its OK I would say it's a pretty considered opinion on their part, they having tested the engine. 

Tim Haywood said:

Utter tosh. What about the energy required to supercool the air in the first place?

Fenlandphil said:

I found an article about the engine I mentioned Dearman engine

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