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Permalink Reply by phil smith yewtreelandscapes.com on April 29, 2012 at 18:49

i use reisser screws when instaling decking, gold heads

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Permalink Reply by POC Landscaping on April 29, 2012 at 18:52

The hidden fixings will pop, IPE and associated hardwoods are hardcore. The hidden fastener systems only really work with composite boards, even then it's a risk IMHO. Pre-drill and countersink stainless steel screws, it's the only way you will hold them suckers down.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by axeljk on April 29, 2012 at 19:18

Cheers Phil I usually use those screws on softwood alright they are good.

Thanks Paul, my customer has been browsing the net and seen lots of pictures of IPE ,without any screws showing. They do look great decks, and I have done a couple in OZ years ago, but I am thinking even if the fasteners are bomb proof, surly the frame under Neath is going to expand/contract at least a little bit with rain and sun.

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Permalink Reply by POC Landscaping on April 29, 2012 at 19:25

I agree its a good look, but it my exp just not applicable in our climate. We template our screws, done properly the fixings can become a very effective feature on the deck, with no (or v little) risk of movement.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by axeljk on April 29, 2012 at 19:59

Have you heard of or seen "Headcote" screws. I found them when googling IPE fixings. They're stainless trim screws with very small, painted heads. I'm going to try calling them in the states tomorrow and see if they will ship here or have a european stockist.

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Permalink Reply by POC Landscaping on April 29, 2012 at 20:12

Just checked google, look nice. All depends on what finish you are looking to acheive. Personally I like to see perfectly fitted uniformed stainless screwheads, countersunk flush within the board. We've used colour matched screws when fitting the ecodek composite boards, they have their place, but I like to show off how accurate the joistwork underneath ;o)

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Permalink Reply by Matt McKeown on May 4, 2012 at 15:41

I wouldn't use visible screw fixing with Ipe, it is so stable you can get really tight spacing so that concealed fixing looks great. I first used EB-TY hidden fasteners on an Ipe deck three years ago and have had no problems since. They give a very neat finish (see below) and ensure regular and very tight spacing (Ipe doesn't expand much and so can be laid very close).

EB-TY are plastic biscuits with a spacer bar in the middle and a hole for the screw. They cannot "pop" because the screw goes through the spacer and through the edge of the board.

As for the cost, given the price of Ipe the price of the EB-TY is not significant. The real cost you need to build in is for the additional labour: that is significant. You will need to use a biscuit cutter over each joist so that to join two 15' boards over 18" joists involves making 20 cuts with the jointer. Then you need to pre-drill each screw hole. The first and last run of decking will need to be fixed through the face with counter-bored holed filled with Ipe plugs. On top of the fun with board thickness variation and the need to end-treat all cuts, laying Ipe with concealed screws adds a lot of labour to a job.

Two notes of caution.

First the Swanson stainless steel screws which come with the EB-TY are terrible. They have a No.1 square-drive socket which rounds out too easily leaving a screw half in to an Ipe board which grips like set concrete. We throw the screws away and buy Carpenter's Mate SS Finish Screws which have a No. 2 socket and have never given any trouble. But that is more expense!

Second, remember to clean your biscuit cutter every day. Ipe produces an incredibly fine yellow dust which gums up everything and will kill the tool if it gets rained on. Ipe dust turns into a red liquid when wet, it stains everything and then it sets into rock hard resin when dry: time for a new biscuit cutter!

Perhaps gold head screws through the face aren't such a bad idea after all.

 

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by axeljk on May 4, 2012 at 21:29

Cheers for all that advice Matt, and nice work on that deck, very neat. In the end the client went for Balau, and we got the spqx decking screw with a 4 mil trim head, when they are slightly countersunk below the surface you would hardly see them. I have a couple of very small IPE decks coming up next month, no more than 10 sq meters, and will use those hidden fixings on them.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Bembridge on May 5, 2012 at 20:59

Take a look at the kreg hidden fixing system when you next install a deck. The jig is around £100 but that's a one off cost then it's just the cost of the special screws. The system fixes through the side of the board from top down. Very simple and works well on soft wood also. In my opinion all smooth faced decking needs a hidden fixing. 

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by axeljk on May 5, 2012 at 21:38

Funny that, just a couple of hours ago I was googeling a router jig to cut curves and saw the Krug hidden screw jig. Looks pretty time consuming, then I guess all the hidden fixing systems are pretty labour intensive eh?

Beautiful deck- IPE?

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Permalink Reply by Tim Bembridge on May 5, 2012 at 21:51

It's actually pretty quick once you get used to it. In a perfect world you should have 2 jigs with one guy pre drilling and one guy screwing. but we just use 2 drills, one with the drill and one with the driver. It's a simple system and gives a decent finish without much messing around. I would say it's similar time to install compared with countersinking and screwing and around double the time if you just screw straight. 
The deck is balua,  the picture was untreated, it looks fantastic once oiled. 
axeljk said:

Funny that, just a couple of hours ago I was googeling a router jig to cut curves and saw the Krug hidden screw jig. Looks pretty time consuming, then I guess all the hidden fixing systems are pretty labour intensive eh?

Beautiful deck- IPE?

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