Replies to This Discussion

PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on April 27, 2012 at 19:48

I noticed a crucial typo in my post of earlier...now corrected.

I totally agree that anyone who applies pesticides professionally should take the relevant competence qualifications. Even though I was born in 1964 I took mine (at Brinsbury College).

I do however feel that the licensing system needs to be updated. I've not heard of one single instance of anyone being stopped and asked for their certificate...I'm not even sure how well the register is policed or updated?

I would also think it would be very hard for anyone to prove that an operator is untrained or not experienced enough to apply pesticides (if they were born before 31 December 1964). 

I think the only way of prosecuting is if an operator had caused an offence by the way of misuse of pesticides.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Watson on April 27, 2012 at 19:49

Except that the HSE actually say....

Use

Anyone who uses a professional pesticide product in the course of their business or employment may not use that pesticide or give instruction to others on their use unless they have received adequate instruction, training and guidance in their correct use.

In addition users of pesticides must hold a Certificate of Competence if using a pesticide if they :

were born after 31 December 1964; or
are providing a commercial service e.g contactors or anyone spraying on land that is not his or his employers.

So if you were born before 31/12/64 you are ok to use a retail product like Roundup or Verdone ( not professional products) and ok to apply to a domestic garden as it is land owned by your employer.

Interesting debate though.

Gary RK said:

Great response & well said, Martin.

I guess we're all giving our age away here........;-)

Lawn lover said:

I was also born before 1964, I did spray using Grandfather rights as a reason to save doing PA1 - PA6 till I looked into legislation in more depth.

If you are doing the spraying  for monetary gain you should have a PA1 PA6

For your public liability  insurance you would need to show you had received  training if some one tried to sue you.

Grandfather rights is for the bloke with a small holding, own land even his allotment,, not as a screen to avoid getting the correct certification to operate for gain in this industry.

This site opened my eyes to a lot of misconception within this industry

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Permalink Reply by Ryan @RNWilliamsGardenServices on April 27, 2012 at 19:51

Just did my PA1 & PA6 in the last couple of weeks. I took it a local agricultural college, although a bit far you to travel. My course was over 3 days, 1.5 days PA1 then computer test. next 1.5 days learning the PA6 info. Had to then go to a local examiners farm the following week where I did my PA6 assessment. 3 day course plus about 2 hours for the Pa6 test cost me £350. Very informative course, good tutor. Learnt a lot.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Watson on April 27, 2012 at 19:59

Another typo I think, you seem to be suggesting that someone yet to be born could apply pesticides...

Phil Voice said:

I noticed a crucial typo in my post of earlier...now corrected.

I totally agree that anyone who applies pesticides professionally should take the relevant competence qualifications. Even though I was born in 1964 I took mine (at Brinsbury College).

I would also think it would be very hard for anyone to prove that an operator is untrained or not experienced enough to apply pesticides (if they were born before 31 December 2012). 

I think the only way of prosecuting is if an operator had caused an offence by the way of misuse of pesticides.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Lockney on April 27, 2012 at 20:40

I think I may have opened a bit of a can of worms here with my query - but I am enjoying the discussion and many thanks for  everyones comments and assistance. I think it also highlights the problems and pitfalls that our area of work brings with legal requirements.  Even the HSE couldnt give Phil an immediate answer.

Also whilst up to my boot-tops in mud this afternoon I was mulling things over and realised that actually the legal thing isnt really the issue here.  I should do the course regardless, to ensure that I am providing a professional and safe service to customers. As Ryan said - you can learn a lot, and thats gotta be a good thing!  The £400 plus fee and also 2-3 days "off the job" is a bit of a downer though.  I wonder how many other expenses there are that I hadn't bargained for.    

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Paul McNulty on April 27, 2012 at 21:01

Great attitude, I wish a few more of the local competitors I see had the same wish to do things "right", let alone legal!

I'd wait and do the course in winter if I were you. You can't afford to lose the daysat this busy time of the year. At least you'll have the abilty to advise potential clients what they should be asking from other quotes they get. I always ask people to insist on seeing public liability certificates, waste-transfer license etc. before they employ a contractor based on price!

Dave Lockney said:

Also whilst up to my boot-tops in mud this afternoon I was mulling things over and realised that actually the legal thing isnt really the issue here.  I should do the course regardless, to ensure that I am providing a professional and safe service to customers. As Ryan said - you can learn a lot, and thats gotta be a good thing!  The £400 plus fee and also 2-3 days "off the job" is a bit of a downer though.  I wonder how many other expenses there are that I hadn't bargained for.    

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on April 27, 2012 at 21:17

Yes, deliberate...just checking to see if anyone ever reads what I write;-0))

Mark Watson said:

Another typo I think, you seem to be suggesting that someone yet to be born could apply pesticides...

Phil Voice said:

I noticed a crucial typo in my post of earlier...now corrected.

I totally agree that anyone who applies pesticides professionally should take the relevant competence qualifications. Even though I was born in 1964 I took mine (at Brinsbury College).

I would also think it would be very hard for anyone to prove that an operator is untrained or not experienced enough to apply pesticides (if they were born before 31 December 2012). 

I think the only way of prosecuting is if an operator had caused an offence by the way of misuse of pesticides.

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Permalink Reply by John on April 27, 2012 at 21:28

I read it :)

Phil Voice said:

Yes, deliberate...just checking to see if anyone ever reads what I write;-0))

Mark Watson said:

Another typo I think, you seem to be suggesting that someone yet to be born could apply pesticides...

Phil Voice said:

I noticed a crucial typo in my post of earlier...now corrected.

I totally agree that anyone who applies pesticides professionally should take the relevant competence qualifications. Even though I was born in 1964 I took mine (at Brinsbury College).

I would also think it would be very hard for anyone to prove that an operator is untrained or not experienced enough to apply pesticides (if they were born before 31 December 2012). 

I think the only way of prosecuting is if an operator had caused an offence by the way of misuse of pesticides.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Dan Frazer Gardening on April 28, 2012 at 8:00

Training is always useful and goes beyond the cost of the course. I book up training for Dec-Feb, and did first aid just recently. This coming winter may be some further tree work training.

£400 is about right for the course and assessment. 

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Brian www.mibservices.co.uk on April 28, 2012 at 11:00

Dave aside getting your PA1 /PA6 training, remember to get your waste carriers licence from the EA. Whether you use your customers green waste recycling bins or not, there will come a time when you need to remove waste from sites, there's lots of "grey" areas and "do I, don't I need". Just get it and play safe. Do a search on LJN for waste carriers licence and you will find an abundance of information and opinions.

My company only does commercial grounds maintenance, so I'm a big advocate of training, qualifications and professional accreditation, my customers demand them.

IMHO there is no excuse for leaving any training till the winter to do. It's nonsense to not be able to to fit in a couple of days training course during the growing season, absolute nonsense. Certification to PA1 / PA6 is a legal requirement, forget Grandad's rights and stay legal.

You should be able to obtain funding from a Government body ( ILA up here in Scotland) to help with the cost's.

Good luck

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Dan Frazer Gardening on April 28, 2012 at 14:02

In Scotland we NEED a waste carrier's license for green waste. Fact. Any professional gardener carrying any client waste is breaking the law without it.

It all boils down to the type of business you want to run and the image you wish to portray. Continual training and development is key if you wish the type of client I work for. Perhaps not so important if all your work is under the table for homeowners who want cheap labour.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Hemming on April 28, 2012 at 15:07

Hi Dave,

I'm doing the same course on May 9th, at Houghall, so will see you there if you go ahead with it.  I want to offer full lawn care services, on top of mowing and edging that I do now.  Hopefully this will lead to a decent increase in turnover, and as somebody pointed out earlier, I can use the right amount of chemicals - can be £50+ depending on what you use, so wastage minimised.  Also then able to look for commercial work.

Justin

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