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Permalink Reply by Simon Smith on February 15, 2012 at 19:01

A soul trader

Now Duncan that's a very different profession altogether and the costs even harder to quantify.

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Permalink Reply by Ross Stuart Mckinlay on February 15, 2012 at 19:14

 

I find that some work lends it self to fixed pricing and some to hourly rates. For instance i tend to do regular two hour maintenance seesions weekly or fortnightly with customers and for these i find it easier to do this at an hourly rate. With a few exceptions i exclude lawns from this for which i charge a fixed price, the same for hedge cutting, fences, soft landscaping etc .My customers are all quite happy with this

I find the hourly rate works well in some situations it avoids continual site vissits and writing quotes which are all time consuming in themselves, this needs to be taken into account, what does your hourly rate look like when you add all this in?. I aslo find my regular "hourly rate" customers keep me going through the winter.

Hope this helps Ross

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Permalink Reply by Colin Hunt on February 15, 2012 at 20:24

Breaking it down to the nuts n bolts, surely your charge out rates will depend almost entirely on your location, catchment area and then your skills.

First thing to consider is are you making money? If so, are you making enough money after your outgoings? If the answer is yes on both counts, then why worry what anyone else charges out?  If the answer is no and you can honestly say you work a solid 8 hrs x (min)200days a year, then you need to look at your rates. If you work less than that, then you need to get more work and push that turnover up.

 

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Stuart @ Eco Garden Maintenance on February 16, 2012 at 9:00

Stevie Wonder has soul but i'm not sure he is selling any.

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Permalink Reply by Sean Busby on February 16, 2012 at 9:25

See you all at the crossroads!

Stuart @ Eco garden maintenance said:

Stevie Wonder has soul but i'm not sure he is selling any.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by David Cox on February 16, 2012 at 10:04

Last night I bumped into another gardener in sainsburys, We cover similar areas, and chat whenever we bump into each other - Hes 73, and we got chating about this - he charges £12.50 an hour - And at first I felt abit "up" about this - he is properly equipped - Top quality tools, even if they are getting abit old (Sachs-Dolmar Strimmer!) - Hes been self employed for over 40 years.

He made the fair point that "I paid my mortgage off before you were born, I only do the few smaller customers I've still got, it gets me out of the house, nothing heavy ever'. He said it was simply the result of not putting his prices up for over 10 years, and not replacing customers as they move or pass away. Alot of his customers had grown old with him, and he knew them as friends as well as customers. In his words "If I was younger, I'd charge double that and some more".

I pointed out that word spreads that so and so pays £x per hour and it affects us all, but was met with "But I dont take any new customers, so its a mute point, no one will find anyone that cheap now"

A good take on how these situations come about - this gentleman fills the "old geoff" sterotype - yet he is pro and skilled and has the right tools for the job. If He wants to charge that - He can and should - he is clearly in a different situation to most of us i.e. No mortgage - no rent, just bills, Gets a pension - and the Job to him fullfills far more personal needs than just giving him Employment and an income. I have no issues with this - The big one for me was that He is friends with many elderly customers who he has known for years - and that factors into his charging.

So we should stop worrying and sell our selfs for what we are - a Quality services for customers at a fair price for ourselves and for the customer. Those who search for anything cheap will either not find it, or will get someone who goes out of business at the end of the season, or who cuts corners.

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Permalink Reply by Ayegardening Ltd - Aye and Susan on February 16, 2012 at 10:08

What I'd like to know is who is this 'old Geoff' everyone keeps talking about? Lol

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by David Cox on February 16, 2012 at 10:15

His name was actually Ron!

Aye and Susan Naing said:

What I'd like to know is who is this 'old Geoff' everyone keeps talking about? Lol

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Permalink Reply by Colin Hunt on February 16, 2012 at 20:30

Good post David, which sums up the situation nicely.  Your guy is happy with £12.50 per hour, good luck to him and what right has anyone to say he should put his prices up so that others can benefit?  I am in my 36th year of business and have always been up against the 'cut price gardeners' for whatever reason.....retired, semi retired, firemen, police, shift workers, etc etc.  We have always gone the extra mile to give a good service and quality workmanship, be it a £10K garden reconstruction or a £25.00 quick mow 'n tidy.  We have kept 4 employees going for most of that time, have earned a good living, been through 3 recessions................ and never worried about what others charge.  We do our thing they do theirs!

David Cox said:

Last night I bumped into another gardener in sainsburys, We cover similar areas, and chat whenever we bump into each other - Hes 73, and we got chating about this - he charges £12.50 an hour - And at first I felt abit "up" about this - he is properly equipped - Top quality tools, even if they are getting abit old (Sachs-Dolmar Strimmer!) - Hes been self employed for over 40 years.

He made the fair point that "I paid my mortgage off before you were born, I only do the few smaller customers I've still got, it gets me out of the house, nothing heavy ever'. He said it was simply the result of not putting his prices up for over 10 years, and not replacing customers as they move or pass away. Alot of his customers had grown old with him, and he knew them as friends as well as customers. In his words "If I was younger, I'd charge double that and some more".

I pointed out that word spreads that so and so pays £x per hour and it affects us all, but was met with "But I dont take any new customers, so its a mute point, no one will find anyone that cheap now"

A good take on how these situations come about - this gentleman fills the "old geoff" sterotype - yet he is pro and skilled and has the right tools for the job. If He wants to charge that - He can and should - he is clearly in a different situation to most of us i.e. No mortgage - no rent, just bills, Gets a pension - and the Job to him fullfills far more personal needs than just giving him Employment and an income. I have no issues with this - The big one for me was that He is friends with many elderly customers who he has known for years - and that factors into his charging.

So we should stop worrying and sell our selfs for what we are - a Quality services for customers at a fair price for ourselves and for the customer. Those who search for anything cheap will either not find it, or will get someone who goes out of business at the end of the season, or who cuts corners.

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Permalink Reply by briggsandscrapem on February 16, 2012 at 20:53

Well said David and Colin.

As they say, "if you cant stand the heat then get out of the soul kitchen"

Colin Hunt said:

Good post David, which sums up the situation nicely.  Your guy is happy with £12.50 per hour, good luck to him and what right has anyone to say he should put his prices up so that others can benefit?  I am in my 36th year of business and have always been up against the 'cut price gardeners' for whatever reason.....retired, semi retired, firemen, police, shift workers, etc etc.  We have always gone the extra mile to give a good service and quality workmanship, be it a £10K garden reconstruction or a £25.00 quick mow 'n tidy.  We have kept 4 employees going for most of that time, have earned a good living, been through 3 recessions................ and never worried about what others charge.  We do our thing they do theirs!

David Cox said:

Last night I bumped into another gardener in sainsburys, We cover similar areas, and chat whenever we bump into each other - Hes 73, and we got chating about this - he charges £12.50 an hour - And at first I felt abit "up" about this - he is properly equipped - Top quality tools, even if they are getting abit old (Sachs-Dolmar Strimmer!) - Hes been self employed for over 40 years.

He made the fair point that "I paid my mortgage off before you were born, I only do the few smaller customers I've still got, it gets me out of the house, nothing heavy ever'. He said it was simply the result of not putting his prices up for over 10 years, and not replacing customers as they move or pass away. Alot of his customers had grown old with him, and he knew them as friends as well as customers. In his words "If I was younger, I'd charge double that and some more".

I pointed out that word spreads that so and so pays £x per hour and it affects us all, but was met with "But I dont take any new customers, so its a mute point, no one will find anyone that cheap now"

A good take on how these situations come about - this gentleman fills the "old geoff" sterotype - yet he is pro and skilled and has the right tools for the job. If He wants to charge that - He can and should - he is clearly in a different situation to most of us i.e. No mortgage - no rent, just bills, Gets a pension - and the Job to him fullfills far more personal needs than just giving him Employment and an income. I have no issues with this - The big one for me was that He is friends with many elderly customers who he has known for years - and that factors into his charging.

So we should stop worrying and sell our selfs for what we are - a Quality services for customers at a fair price for ourselves and for the customer. Those who search for anything cheap will either not find it, or will get someone who goes out of business at the end of the season, or who cuts corners.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by Phil Voice on February 16, 2012 at 21:09

Over 2000 views in three days....demonstrates how important the topic is.

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PRO MemberPermalink Reply by David Cox on February 17, 2012 at 8:24

I think it is also a very sensitive topic - as demonstrated by peoples reactions - £15 per hour would send alot of business out of business in some expensive areas of the country (London, south east, Harrogate / York / Leeds), whereas £15 someone could scrape by a business on in a lower-living cost part of the country if they used second hand / older tools etc.

The fact that these figures touted about could push some businesses under as in their part of the country running costs are higher - makes the annoyance of such a low rate understandable!

It is worth noting that the £12.50 per hour rate was a) Effectively mates rates and b) basically a business in the process of "running down" and winding up! He could not replace any tools if the break and he does not take on any new customers at all.

Phil Voice said:

Over 2000 views in three days....demonstrates how important the topic is.

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